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Online Low Limit Basics from the Limit Gurus

  
 
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Darby
Old 12-12-2004, 07:53 PM     Post subject: Online Low Limit Basics from the Limit Gurus #1 (permalink)  
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Alright, bear with me here, I usually play SnG's, but am getting into the low limit games for ring games (usually .50/1) and have a few questions (I play on Empire btw).

1. My strategey is to play tight as possible, my starting hand strategey is to pretty much only play big hands like AA, KK, AK, QQ for a raise from any position. From there, I play other hands depending on limpers, position, etc. I will play suited connecters in a pot with 6 limpers for 1 small bet. No one seems to notice how tight I am playing.

2. Second, I never slowplay and it seems like with 5-6 people in a lot of pots it is for the best to reduce the risk of getting sucked out. A question I have is, say I have A-K. I hit an A on the flop. I tend to play this very hard, as it seems like I can punish the Ax players who think they have the best hand.

3. When to you respect a 3-bet or cap? When do you 3-bet or cap yourself? Keep in mind Im playing .5/1. Whenever I think I have the best hand, is it best to keep raising? Ex: This happened earlier today--I have AA and the flop is Q-7-3. I bet, get raised, I 3 bet, he caps. A little worried about a set, but he put 3 bets in pre-flop, so 77 or 33 is unlikely. QQ could be possible, but I put him on AQ. I ended up winning a decent pot, and didnt get to see what he had, but I have a hard time respecting some raises when the pre-flop action would make it unlikely for him to hold what he is representing.

4. Pot Odds. To be clear, this is how I interpret them. Say I hold 7-8 offsuit in the big blind. 5 limpers and I check. Flop comes 5-6-A. So now there are 6 small bets in the pot. My open ender is like 3-1 to hit. So how many bets do I need to call to continue with odds. Say one person bets, another calls, 2 fold, and it is 2 me. I am getting 8-1 on my bet so I should definitly call right?

5. How to play a big hand on the flop. Say I flop a set with 4 people in the pot. Someone bets, if the flop looks dangerous I am firing away. What if it looks safe? Do I smooth call, and then open up on the turn where the bet doubles?

Any help would be great.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 12-12-2004, 08:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
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1. that's way too tight. you should be playing suited connectors with even 3 limpers. play all pocket pairs, even for 2 small bets when there are 2 or 3 who cold called already. flopping a set is TOO profitable sometimes...

2. the only time to slowplay is when it's obvious (like KK4, and you hold K9). but otherwise, even if you have a set, bet it. they don't know they're going along for a ride.

3. if you think you have the best hand, raise. if you think you're behind, but have a hand that can beat the majority of possible hands, then check call it down if the pot is big. if something like a 4flush or 4 to a straight is showing, save yourself 2 big bets and give them credit.

4. that's an automatic call, with an OESD i would raise in that spot. with 8 outs i'll hit on the next card once every 4.5 times, and raising taps them for 1 bet, giving you 2:1 on your raise. that's lower than 4.5, but it will often buy you both the turn and river for free, which is about 2:1 for your straight to hit.

5. i like to tap them during the turn with a raise. but if i had a set, and and 4 people called already on the flop, raise that mofo.
 
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Darby
Old 12-12-2004, 08:31 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Darby
I made it sound like I actually play tighter than I do, I also play suited connectors if there are a ton of limpers, and I will play AXs with a ton of limpers for cheap
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elipsesjeff
Old 12-12-2004, 09:33 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Your limit strategy sounds pretty sound. You'll probably be making money if you continue what you do as long as you stay at the low limits.

Not slowing playing is generally the best thing to do. You want to raise your flush and open ended straight draws for two different reasons: you'll increase the pot, and when you do hit, it will increase the likely hood you'll get a caller because they wont realize what you have.

Another thing to keep in mind is the importance of position. Raising the flop to get a free card on the turn is a large factor when fishing with AK with low cards. I've done this many times to river an A or K and take the pot down.

In early position with a lot of limpers with good hands like AA and KK, you must do some more work, usually check raising is a good idea. If you bet straight out you give some players odds to go for that gutshot or middle pair draw, especially with a lot of people seeing the raised flop. Another thing to keep in mind is don't be too quick to fold in large pots. Sometimes the hands that feature many many opponents will have huge pots and chasing that gutshot or second pair is the right thing to do.

Cold calling is a no-no. Especially preflop with a small PP or Axs from EP. You will lose money if you continually cold-call PP preflop. Usually from EP you limp with 77 and up and any pocket pair MP and up. If you put one bet into the pot, put another bet in, you aren't -EV for making that extra call. Be aware of being trapped between two raisers.

If you are gonig to play for 2-bets preflop, you might as well make it three, raise that biatch.

Good luck with the rest of your game.


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ChezJ
Old 12-14-2004, 03:38 PM     Post subject: Re: Online Low Limit Basics from the Limit Gurus #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darby
Pot Odds. To be clear, this is how I interpret them. Say I hold 7-8 offsuit in the big blind. 5 limpers and I check. Flop comes 5-6-A. So now there are 6 small bets in the pot. My open ender is like 3-1 to hit. So how many bets do I need to call to continue with odds. Say one person bets, another calls, 2 fold, and it is 2 me. I am getting 8-1 on my bet so I should definitly call right?
It's true you have 3:1 to hit by the river, but you have no idea what the pot will look like after two more cards, so it's better to focus on just the next card. Your odds of hitting 8 outs on the next card are 5:1. The pot is laying you 8:1 so you clearly cannot fold. The question is, call or raise?

A call is profitable because of the overlay. But consider the raise. You have 8 bets in the pot and 2 guys already in there. So if you raise, they will most likely call. That would make it 10 bets to your 2 bets, or 5:1. A breakeven bet, so you may consider just calling.

However, raising the flop has the added benefit of putting you in control, and the other guys may check to you on the turn. If you miss, you can take the free card. Or, you can bet again since the pot now is now laying you 6:1.

So raising the flop seems to have more benefits in this particular situation.

ChezJ
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elipsesjeff
Old 12-14-2004, 03:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chezj
So raising the flop seems to have more benefits in this particular situation.
And in most. You want to raise, 3-bet, cap, get as much money into that pot as you possibly can. If all the people in the pot will call, and if you are still making 5-1 on your money, then why not make more money for 5-1 odds then? Capping the flop also gives the impression you actually do have a hand, and it will get checked around, giving you free card on turn. Even if you cap you have odds to just call a bet on the turn. If you hit your straight, you'll be able to make a lot of bling on the river, because most likely you are going to get bet into again. Raise that biatch!


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steviebrutal
Old 12-14-2004, 09:53 PM     Post subject: Re: Online Low Limit Basics from the Limit Gurus #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChezJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darby
Pot Odds. To be clear, this is how I interpret them. Say I hold 7-8 offsuit in the big blind. 5 limpers and I check. Flop comes 5-6-A. So now there are 6 small bets in the pot. My open ender is like 3-1 to hit. So how many bets do I need to call to continue with odds. Say one person bets, another calls, 2 fold, and it is 2 me. I am getting 8-1 on my bet so I should definitly call right?
It's true you have 3:1 to hit by the river, but you have no idea what the pot will look like after two more cards, so it's better to focus on just the next card. Your odds of hitting 8 outs on the next card are 5:1. The pot is laying you 8:1 so you clearly cannot fold. The question is, call or raise?


ChezJ
I think its much better to think of the call in terms of the next 2 cards. You can always use pot odds to figure if, on the turn, you should continue in the hand. That way, you are always playing the best of it with all the information that is available to you. You may be giving up some edges by only calculating the 1 figure for the next card - which in turn would cost you some profit in the long run. With that said, Im not saying you should disregard the pot odds for turning your card. In situations where you may need the card to come on the turn (for whatever the reasons, maybe to have the most people in the pot as possible), you should compare the 2 figures. Of course, implied odds plays into this as well - as you mentioned - but I think you can still use odds on the turn to make profitable decisions regardless of your implied odds on the flop. For me, implied odds really only serve as a way to make what "looks" like a bad decisions on the flop into a decent decision.

I compare this to the basics of preflop play. Generally speaking, we are only playing the hands that have the best expectation for the entire hand on the whole. On the flop (if we're pretty sure we're drawing to the nuts), we should act the same way.
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