Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

OMG limit wtf?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
pankfish
Old 06-18-2008, 02:20 AM     Post subject: OMG limit wtf? #1 (permalink)  
pankfish's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
pankfish
What should I do on river? Bet/fold amirite? Only 4 hands on villain.



0.5/1 Limit Holdem
PartyPoker
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($73.00)
UTG+1 ($13.60)
CO ($20.00)
BTN ($17.50)
SB ($22.50)
Hero ($25.00)
[CO posted 0.5]

Pre-flop: (2.5 SB, 6 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, CO checks, BTN raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BTN 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls

Flop: (16.5 SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, BTN bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, BTN 3-bets, Hero 4-bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN calls

Turn: (14.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls

River: (26.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero calls

[Results Hidden]
<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
dsaxton
Old 06-18-2008, 03:26 AM #2 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
dsaxton
Bet / folding is absurd. Bet / calling is reasonable, but I'd expect him to show Q-J of spades or something similar.
Reply With Quote
pankfish
Old 06-18-2008, 03:38 AM #3 (permalink)  
pankfish's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
pankfish
So are you saying check/fold, check/call, or 3 bet? I know his line looks like he has to be on a draw. I don't know how I can fold getting like 29-1, I see shneids make sick folds though and thought maybe I screwed this up. This is pretty much my first online limit session ever not wasted.
<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
 
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-18-2008, 03:54 AM #4 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
 Bet-call is the only good line.

We can't fold ever to a single raise getting massive odds against a possible backdoor draw.

Also because of the huge pot, our opponent is calling any ace high or pair on that slight chance we were pushing a draw the whole time. So we need to bet to get those hands to call.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
Knytestorme
Old 06-18-2008, 04:20 AM #5 (permalink)  
Knytestorme's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
Knytestorme
Send a message via ICQ to Knytestorme
Honestly, I don't see why we aren't 3-betting and calling a cap here, based on the action so far.

Button caps pre, we are likely behind here but could be in a good position so that's cool.

We hit top set on the board and it gets capped again. Villan isn't doing this with AK of spades, AK/Q diamonds is likely but so are overpairs

Turn is capped again, I don't see him doing this with AK/Q diamonds, leaves really only an overpair or set of 9/3's.

River shows the flush not hitting and the straight not hitting, do we really believe he's capping pre/flop/turn with something like AK/AQ/KQ/QJ spades and hoping to hit a gutshot or backdoor flush?

I really beleive, based on the action, that we're getting shown a set of 9's or 3's here and we missed value...I'd say that it would be a set of 9's too, if it were 3's then villain would consider an overset againt them as more possible than if they have the 9's.

Also just noticed that Hero was BB so villain can't be giving him too much respect for 3-betting a button raise pre...yep, definatly seeing a set of 9's here at showdown.
Reply With Quote
socal1111
Old 06-18-2008, 05:20 AM     Post subject: Re: OMG limit wtf? #6 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
socal1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by pankfish
What should I do on river? Bet/fold amirite? Only 4 hands on villain.



0.5/1 Limit Holdem
PartyPoker
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($73.00)
UTG+1 ($13.60)
CO ($20.00)
BTN ($17.50)
SB ($22.50)
Hero ($25.00)
[CO posted 0.5]

Pre-flop: (2.5 SB, 6 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, CO checks, BTN raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BTN 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls

Flop: (16.5 SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, BTN bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, BTN 3-bets, Hero 4-bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN calls

Turn: (14.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, BTN 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls

River: (26.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero calls

[Results Hidden]
No matter what the outcome was..,. max river!!!!!

If he went some lame runner, runner... I hope you congratulated yourself for playing it well!
Reply With Quote
DrivingDog
Old 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM #7 (permalink)  
DrivingDog's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
DrivingDog
I'd probably just call his raise but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned over 94 or A9 or something goofy like that.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 06-18-2008, 05:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
3bet and call a cap. If he runner runnered something stupid, GG NH

Most likely he has a 99, followed by a massively overplayed AA/KK. Calling here would be nutso.
Reply With Quote
DrivingDog
Old 06-18-2008, 05:36 PM #9 (permalink)  
DrivingDog's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
DrivingDog
All he's done up to the river is check and call which is what makes me suspicious that he either sucked out on the river somehow or is making a goofy play. Either way I don't see much value in 3betting.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-18-2008, 06:02 PM #10 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
 Yes the key here is that the villain who raised us on the river has been calling along the whole time; he isn't the villain that was capping it. If it were the button who raised us again on the river, I would gladly cap it again.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 06-18-2008, 08:35 PM #11 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
Yes the key here is that the villain who raised us on the river has been calling along the whole time; he isn't the villain that was capping it. If it were the button who raised us again on the river, I would gladly cap it again.
exactly my thoughts. when the passive fool that gets a weak hand trapped to a capped pf hand only calls all the way down between two others showing HUGE signs of strenght...when the passive fool suddenly wakes up, he hit something. i expect to see 99/33 here or Ad5d/QJs. i dont cap this river, but i suck, too. if it were the original capper betting/raising, i would cap and take my chances, but this isnt him coming alive.

my question is: was the c/r on flop a good thing? i know we want to cap it, but isnt leading/3betting better? by check/raising, we are forcing the dead money to call two cold. dont we want them to come along at this point, and wouldnt leading and letting the pf capper do the raising help to commit the two guys in the middle a bit more once they've already called a bet on the flop?

clearly, though, CO is a wank. note him as a folder.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Knytestorme
Old 06-19-2008, 01:31 AM #12 (permalink)  
Knytestorme's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
Knytestorme
Send a message via ICQ to Knytestorme
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
Yes the key here is that the villain who raised us on the river has been calling along the whole time; he isn't the villain that was capping it. If it were the button who raised us again on the river, I would gladly cap it again.
Good catch, I didn't note it wasn't the button raising on the river...makes me believe we're seeing 99 only here, is the only hand that makes sense with that line of letting everyone else do the betting for him.
Reply With Quote
dsaxton
Old 06-19-2008, 03:11 AM #13 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
dsaxton
9-9 is very unlikely. Much more likely is that he was chasing the whole way and then backed into some weird nuttish hand. (Q-J of spades, A-5 of diamonds, etc)
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-19-2008, 03:19 AM #14 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
 [quote="Chopper"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
my question is: was the c/r on flop a good thing? i know we want to cap it, but isnt leading/3betting better? by check/raising, we are forcing the dead money to call two cold. dont we want them to come along at this point, and wouldnt leading and letting the pf capper do the raising help to commit the two guys in the middle a bit more once they've already called a bet on the flop?
Check-raise is the only way to go I think. With a 16SB pot, check raising will give cold callers 19:2 (8.5:1) odds on a call. I don't mind folding out all the possible gutshot and backdoor draws that are possible since this is already a sizable pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Good catch, I didn't note it wasn't the button raising on the river...makes me believe we're seeing 99 only here, is the only hand that makes sense with that line of letting everyone else do the betting for him.
I wouldn't be surprised to see stuff like Ad5d, 6d5d, QsJs, 8s7s here at all either.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
Knytestorme
Old 06-19-2008, 04:19 AM #15 (permalink)  
Knytestorme's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
Knytestorme
Send a message via ICQ to Knytestorme
Ad5d I'll give you since his lack of activity post could have been him just trying to get through cheap and then continuing along after each raise since his pot odds kept increasing (have done the same myself once) BUT can we really see him acting that way pre with it?

99 and 33 are really the only hands I could see someone limp-calling to a cap with preflop from UTG+1 (well ok, AK-Ts possibly but I still figure those for a raise from players at this level).

If he hit a set of 3's on the flop, after that much action I would think most players would lead or raise on the turn to see if they might be over-setted but he doesn't. We can rule out TT since we know where three of them are which leaves us with 99 and them letting the two agressive players do the betting for them since they are only worried about TT here.

The one other hand that could make sense is ATs but not diamond. They have top-pair on the flop and call down to the river waiting to see if the flush hits, when it doesn't they decide to go for it...AT of spades would actually make a lot of sense here I guess so I'm revising

We see AT spades, or a set of 9's and while I wouldn't be happy to see the runner-runner get there, I'm willing to cap the river here since if we're beat we're losing the pot anyway and if we are ahead we're adding 2-4 extra BB to the pot (assuming both come to the cap)
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-19-2008, 04:47 AM #16 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
 The problem with 3betting the river is that if we are ahead we gain one bet when he just calls. But if we are behind a flush or straight he will likely cap it and we will end up losing 2 bets.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
Knytestorme
Old 06-19-2008, 05:05 AM #17 (permalink)  
Knytestorme's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
Knytestorme
Send a message via ICQ to Knytestorme
Yeah, I can see that point though I assume he'd cap with the set too. The problem with that is that if he does then it's a wash if it's 50/50 he has the set or the flush/straight and cap's either but we lose on those times he will only call.

I concede the point, though if the third player was in I still don't mind trying to cap it

Just wish OP would post results now hehe
Reply With Quote
dsaxton
Old 06-19-2008, 05:29 AM #18 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
dsaxton
It's very rare that a player with a set will just sit back and call all the way to the river against two players when it's obvious he'll get a ton of action by raising. This takes a truly exceptional donk.
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-19-2008, 07:19 AM #19 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
 I really see his river raise after cold calling two bets 5 times in a row to be "ZOMG I HIT THE GIN". If he was content to call all those bets with 33 or 99, I think he would just call our first bet again on the river.

My money is on Ad5d or QsJs. I am leaning towards QJs personally.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 06-19-2008, 02:32 PM #20 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
[quote="KoRnholio"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
my question is: was the c/r on flop a good thing? i know we want to cap it, but isnt leading/3betting better? by check/raising, we are forcing the dead money to call two cold. dont we want them to come along at this point, and wouldnt leading and letting the pf capper do the raising help to commit the two guys in the middle a bit more once they've already called a bet on the flop?
Check-raise is the only way to go I think. With a 16SB pot, check raising will give cold callers 19:2 (8.5:1) odds on a call. I don't mind folding out all the possible gutshot and backdoor draws that are possible since this is already a sizable pot.
i guess where i was going, and correct me if i am wrong, was that we cant take away odds to draw, and we have the current nuts. there is no gutshot available, so cutting the odds down to 8.5:1 doesnt do anything. OE's and flushes still have good odds to draw profitably. so do clean overcards. you cant take away any odds because these guys arent thinking "set," they are thinking that their A or K is good if it comes in. so, you may as well go for max value here. and, the check raise gets two bets in, maybe more. but, with this raiser pf, i think leading out gets in 3 bets, especially if anyone has overpairs or AhKh/QhJh.

its moot, though, because the flop capped.

i just dont see forcing dead money to call two cold when we can suck them in. after all, we cant take their odds away to draw, unless they are playing a backdoor draw only.

does that at least make sense? or is it completely irrelevant?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 06-19-2008, 02:38 PM #21 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
You can't fold here ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 06-19-2008, 04:57 PM #22 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
didn't see that villain is cold calling guy not capping guy.

I guess a cry call is OK.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
DrivingDog
Old 06-19-2008, 06:22 PM #23 (permalink)  
DrivingDog's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
DrivingDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
You can't fold here ever.
brilliant analysis from one of the best.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
Reply With Quote
KoRnholio
Old 06-19-2008, 07:04 PM #24 (permalink)  
KoRnholio's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
KoRnholio will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
there is no gutshot available, so cutting the odds down to 8.5:1 doesnt do anything
In an already large pot, I don't mind making hands like KQ, KJ, 76 or two random spades fold because letting them stay in cheaply trying to "suck them in" can easily cost us the whole pot (plus the extra bets we put in when they hit).
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
Reply With Quote
DrivingDog
Old 06-19-2008, 08:13 PM #25 (permalink)  
DrivingDog's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
DrivingDog
Have to c/r the flop. Too many bd and gutshots to let them in cheap.

KJ, KQ, JQ , overcards, any two diamonds could all be out there. Ram and jam the flop with this many opponents and so many draws
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 06-19-2008, 09:01 PM #26 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
cool. just wanted confirmation. c/r FTW.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:27 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.