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Ok not trying to sound like a know it all but.

  
 
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littleogre
Old 06-12-2006, 03:00 PM     Post subject: Ok not trying to sound like a know it all but. #1 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 Ok lets say you are first to act in heads up pot and you feel you have the best hand. You lead out on the flop and turn and they just call. On the river you should think about check raising. Believe it or not people fall for it all the time. They just can't resist trying to steal the pot.
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6high
Old 06-13-2006, 02:50 AM #2 (permalink)  
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This is called a sexy.

And yes it is definitely worth while considering on all rivers.
You do whatever is the most +EV.

It's so situation and opponent dependant that there really isn't any need to discuss it further.

Post some examples or opportunities where you think it was/might have been appropriate.
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littleogre
Old 06-13-2006, 02:59 PM #3 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 i'll need to search my pt database but i mainly use it on habitual river stealers.
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flotu
Old 06-13-2006, 06:12 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I actually have'nt thought about this at all before but it sound like it's something I should try out.
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Nehmer
Old 06-13-2006, 07:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Here are some examples if you wanted them....

Villian is a Tag who typically isn't calling the turn without a pair or the flush draw(which I should give him a chance to bluff with anyway).

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6, 6.
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) T, 3, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (5.66 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB

This one was vs an unknown player

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, A.
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) A, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (5.66 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB
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Xanadu
Old 06-13-2006, 07:44 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 is a perfect play. Against a known thinking opponent, you raised preflop, and took 2 shots at the pot and then checked your overcards on the river, only to raise and say haha I gotcha, I really had you crushed all along. Of course, once you do this once or twice, it becomes a cat and mouse game to see who can keep the other guy guessing. I'd pull this line twice against the same guy, and the third time, I'd lead out with the monster and watch him raise.

Mess with their heads, f'em up, make'em do what you want. The ones that think they are good but really aren't that hot are the ones you can destroy if you get good reads and adjust your game to stay a step ahead.
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elipsesjeff
Old 06-13-2006, 08:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Something similar happened to me at my 20/40 live game:

Read: UTG+1 is a thinking player, an older 'rounder' TAG per se and is probably better than the average player at the table.

20/40 1/2 Kill Hollywood Casino, Aurora (10 handed)

Hero is Button with

Preflop Action: UTG calls, UTG +1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls Button Checks.

Flop: :Ts: Pot: 7sb (7 players)

Flop Action: UTG checks, UTG +1 Bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero thinks then calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: Pot: 6 BB (5 players)

Turn action: UTG+1 Checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero thinks again then bets, UTG +1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

River: Pot: 8 BB (2 players)

UTG+1 Checks, Hero Bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero Calls.

Showdown:

UTG+1 Shows :As: Ace high flush
Hero Mucks

UTG+1 wins 12 BB pot.
Hero is feeling retarded as he had an inkling in the back of his mind that the guy had the flush and his turn check was tricky. But then realized that not betting would be a sin in that situation as he doesnt have the flush more than he does and is scared of the 8 in most situations..


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euphoricism
Old 06-13-2006, 09:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Not a sexy:
check call
check call
check raise

Sexy:
bet
bet
check raise
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pokerfanatic
Old 06-13-2006, 09:32 PM #9 (permalink)  
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i don't like the bet, bet, c/r line IMO it's stupid...
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

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Xanadu
Old 06-13-2006, 10:00 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
i don't like the bet, bet, c/r line IMO it's stupid...
Unless it is the best way to get money out of your opponent. Then it is smart. Sexy smart.
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Nehmer
Old 06-13-2006, 10:33 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
i don't like the bet, bet, c/r line IMO it's stupid...
If you know your opponent almost has to have a piece of the board worth betting and you also know he doesn't have a hand worth raising you with, based on him not raising the flop or turn, why not checkraise the river? It's not something I hardly ever do vs unknown opponents or really very often vs anybody, but it definately is the best river play sometimes. Dismissing certain plays as always being stupid without thinking through different situations is more stupid than any other play I could think of in my opinion
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6high
Old 06-14-2006, 11:24 AM #12 (permalink)  
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A sexy is any river c/r where you had the initiative on the previous round.

c/r
bet
c/r

bet/3bet
bet
c/r

bet
bet/3bet
c/r

etc.
etc.

This is about extracting the most from villian. That's it.

If Villian will bet and call a c/r only half as often as he would have called a bet, then it is +EV.
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littleogre
Old 06-15-2006, 06:26 AM #13 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Not a sexy:
check call
check call
check raise

Sexy:
bet
bet
check raise
Whats wrong with calling if you feel a raise will kill your action from a inferior hand?
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euphoricism
Old 06-15-2006, 11:29 AM #14 (permalink)  
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"Sexy" is a term. Like "donkbet" or "stop'n'go" It has no inherent value judgement. Just like you have to decide when it is a good time to donkbet, you have to decide when it is a good time to pull a sexy.
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