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Poker Forum |
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| littleogre |
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| Ok billy has pocket rockets in early position and just limps thats mistake numero uno imo. Four people see the flop and billy gets crazy and raises and reraises ever street and will go so far as to cap if the other players keep giving him the chance to bet. Sure he will actually win some times. I've actually seen billy win that hand once in a while but surly he is not makeing a profit playing aces that way. He is playing a pair in a family pot like he has a monster. The thing is billy is not your typical maniac truth be told billy is passive most times and is your typical calling station but he seems to think that aces are so strong that they can't be beat even in a family pot | |||
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| euphoricism |
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| Umm. Ok. | |||
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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| littleogre |
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| Ok if you don't get it billy is not real. I'm just useing him to make my example. The point i'm trying to make is i see people play aces that way all the time. Frankly i think that playing aces like that is about as profitable as just dumping your money on the table and leaving Basically i see people limp or check and then after several callers see the flop they go cazy and insist on geting the last bet in on every street even no matter how stongly the other people play the hand they just keep coming over the top. Now i have no idea how many times they do that and get a loss but every one in a while they will win a huge pot and i guess feel good about themselves but aren't they just bleeding money by playing aces or any big pair that way? Frankly if i start limping and checking aces preflop then playing them fast on the flop turn and river when other players are raising and reraising thats a huge leak right? Or am i missing something? I mean if this way of playing big pocket paire is gona make cash then please fill me in. | |||
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| pokerfanatic |
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UMMM K... |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| elipsesjeff |
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 Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| chardrian |
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The nice part about AA is you can really play em any way (except folding preflop) and they will end up being profitable in the long run. Your question really is whether playing AA this way will reduce their profitability. And I think you already know the answer to that. |
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http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com |
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| pokerfanatic |
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If you gain 2bb by playing it slow I that situation then that is 2bb more then you get by playing it like every other decent poker player… last time I checked this game was about making the most money you can on a given hand and a given situation or saving the most money depending… So I play my way, when you find yourself thinking I’m a dumb ass for it you’ll fail to realize I had a reason behind the play and one reason off the top of my head is to mix up my game, I slow play 3 times I ram and jam 3 times how do you know where I am if I do this with a wide range? My point is that, it depends on the player; I’m doing it for a specific reason with logical explanations. Bad players are just that bad players and have no logical thinking for it at all. You can’t sit there and say that EVERY Player that will limp AA PF is a donk that’s just a stupid ass statement… if the table will call for one bet but all fold for 2 why not take the risk of letting some people in cheap, or is your post flop game just that shitty you can never fold AA? I could go into multiple situations where it's ok for metagame reasons... |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| elipsesjeff |
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Secondly, if you go so far as in to limp reraise other hands to hide the fact that you dont only always limp reraise aces UTG (which would happen like 1 in 1200 hands or so in a 6 max game) then you are only losing value on those OTHER hands. Thus, limp reraising is pretty much stupid; especially in a 6 max game. |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| pokerfanatic |
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I was only talking about limping, not limp/3bet... meta game on a limp 3 bet haha, your right i wont come up with any just limping yea i can come up with a many... |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| elipsesjeff |
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So, uh, you're not raising at all preflop with Aces? I'd love to see this argument. LOLLERSKATES, ROFLCOPTER, etc etc |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| pokerfanatic |
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You took it out of context, where did I say that I ALWAYS do anything in any of my statements Jeff? Seriously, where the fuck did I say "I never raise AA or limp/3bet"... I said that if I were to limp AA you would automatically think I’m a donk? Now does that say if I were to limp ALWAYS no, which says if I were to limp ONE AA you would think I was a donk... that's a stupid ass statement to make... How about next time instead of me thinking that the readers of my comments are intelligent enough to realize I am NOT talking about EVERY AA I play... by using the words situations and if I were to limp AA implying one hand (not to self will add in one hand next time I make any comment), that I’m an idiot, really pathetic... That’s my mistake, let the record show that I’m referring to NEVER ALWAYS, and in PERTICULER SITUATIONS, it’s not that bad… now if you'd like me to go into it i'd be more then fucking happy... |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| elipsesjeff |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| elipsesjeff |
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You have to play AA like you play every other hand in order to maximize your results from the long run. The moment you don't play AA like normal, is the time you lose money. Its the metagame in capping other hands than TT+ like AKo and AQs sometimes, that way they cant automatically put you on AA when you do cap. |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| littleogre |
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| Ok but i'm not talking about traping 1 player. I'm talking about trying to slow play aces preflop and ending up in a family pot with 3 or more other people . Thats the key to my argument the pot is not heads up it's multi way and we are only talking about post flop play. Also pokerfanatic we are talking about low stakes holdem and how many times do you see the whole table fold just because you raised but i guess limping is fine but thats really my question. I'm mainly talking about post flop and yes i thing it is a huge donkey play to raise the turn and river when the pot has has several callers and it has been raised and reraised before it gets to you. Honestly what do you think the guy that is raising and reraising the river has? Lastly this has nothing to do with the way i play aces but it has to do with the way i see other people play them. Honest question lets say you have aces utg+1 and you limp and 4 people see the flop and no i dont think you are a donkey for limping in that spot i just feel thats it's negative ev to limp versus players that are gona call anyway but thats nether here nor there. Ok the flop comes and you don't improve To keep things simple lets assume you are the first to act and you bet. Now the action moves from player to player and 1 guy raises and another player reraises. We will assume those players are the last 2 act in the hand now it comes back to you and you cap. Now the turn comes and once again you lead out and once again it is raised and reraised.What are you gona do when it gets back around to you what are you gona do? | |||
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| Xanadu |
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You are right ogre, this is a crappy way to play aces and probably loses money on them at a non-maniac-filled table. capping the flop multi-way is usually good, but when the turn comes and the action is still furious, continuing to pump it unimproved is throwing away the chips. As for limping preflop, I only play shorthanded now, and never do it ... you raise so much at a short table that there is no deception value there. |
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| drmcboy |
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| paragraphs and chill pills, I am passing them out. | |||
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| pokerfanatic |
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ok, so Jeff seems to think there is no reason to limp AA PF from any position... it sounds as if littleogre is talking about small stakes which 2/4 and 3/6 are small stakes... My point is I have found myself in a situation where I have tight players on my left and bad ones on my right, ALL the bad ones have folded to me and now I’m left with only tight players to my left that will fold big hands to a raise and wont cold call hardly ever... you want to get as much money as possible from a big hand post flop, and tight players are easier to read then lose ones, we will say SB completes little to much when no one raises though he is still a tight player, and some of these "tight" players will raise lesser hands when limped to and stick other in for a call as well once you get to the flop a good LHE player can outmaneuver the other players in the flop, donking out into a PFR in hopes he raises to help protect your hand from a draw... raising if someone leads out on a draw, c/r to make it look as if you have a weaker hand then you do... you have more maneuver abilities with the hand against bettor players in this particular situation JEFF... where you typically pick up the blinds if you raise you know have a chance by gambling a bit PF, to pick up a much larger pot... now if I think even 2 people cold call me limping is a mistake... but it can be useful against passive players that tend to limp more but not cold call much to out play them post flop with a bigger pot, of course this will increase your variance a lot, and it can lead to really bad beats at times, but it will give you opportunity to be called down with TP that would have folded PF as well... now i mean for me to be limping my reads have to be spot on and the table conditions have to be just right, otherwise you lose EV... my game isn't all about math my game is math but more importantly trying to play the player to get paid the most money based on the math... So Jeff when you play with 3 donks on you right and the rest the table good and those 3 donks fold PF which they will do on occasion and you hold AA you always put in that raise, when you know damn well that they will fold a lot of hands and only call or raise a very small % and wont over play the hand I’m not sure how it's any different then limping in and getting multiplayer pot instead of HU and you end up having more chance to get 1-5 extra big beats from a hand that thinks he dominated and mucks earlier... I just then the argument NEVER limping AA is one that is not entirely correct especially if you are in a situation where tight players have a weakness of not calling 2 but limping or raising weaker hands and not being able to get wait from TPTK on the turn or river... like A9s for example you could probably limp this or raise it but you can't call it... say flop comes out 925 rainbow and you hold AA turn is a 7 A9s has to think he's hand is good in this situation and probably give you 2 or 3 bets before realizing he is in deep shit... where he folds PF because you limped the flop you know got more money out of this player, and you might get other players that are dead money in the pot preflop and flop but in the end it ends up HU in that situation both ways but with more money in one then the other... This game is not robotic, it's all situational IMO too many people around here under estimate that... Plus, when the next time you raise AA they might remember that one or 2 times you limped AA and not put you on as high a probability of having the AA as like KK-TT or AK, AQ shit like that… so they might think that like there 99 is a playable hand farther then they should take it… my basic point is if you can get other decent player off there games trying to figure out what you are doing while donks are not in the pot then you might get yourself more money in pots when donks are in the hands… all about playing the player along with the math IMO... |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| thenonsequitur |
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| elipsesjeff |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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| euphoricism |
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us! |
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| pokerfanatic |
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I was thinking along the lines of a game theory principle but I see your points... Maybe my idea of “game theory” wouldn’t even apply all that often at good table selection 3/6 and down… |
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~ "God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord |
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| littleogre |
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| euphoricism |
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| $10/$20 HU? | |||
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us! |
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| go back to $1000/$2000 with you pocket rocket limping fag | |||
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| euphoricism |
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| huh? | |||
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us! |
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| elipsesjeff |
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couldnt take the pain any more. its locked |
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month. |
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