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Odds to call, outs to call?

  
 
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moiraine57
Old 06-17-2005, 08:30 AM     Post subject: Odds to call, outs to call? #1 (permalink)  
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moiraine57
Ladies and gents,

Sorry I don't have the hand history for this one saved; I will try to reproduce from memory. Suits are not a factor here.

Preflop: Me: AA, EP. Raise. 2 callers.

Flop: 5, 8, 2. I again bet, one fold, one call.

Turn: 7. A bit of a scare card, but I'm not believing anyone played 6,9 or 4,6 for a raise and a gutshot draw. I am called.

River: Another 7. Again, raise, same thinking as before. He reraises, I (with somewhat of a sinking feeling) call.

He turns over 6,7 for runner-runner trip 7s.

I, a bit peeved, break a rule by asking him what he was thinking. He said, "Oh, on the flop, I had plenty of outs." Really? I counted 8. Heads-up, I have no idea what he was thinking. Maybe with many people in the pot. Maybe. But heads-up? You are calling an outside straight draw? Is this the correct play, heads-up?

I just shut up and told him I was being a sore loser.

Can someone help me out on the math of this one? It seems wrong, but I don't know for sure. I thought he had the outs to call, but not the odds. But I could be wrong.
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gutshot
Old 06-17-2005, 09:13 AM #2 (permalink)  
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gutshot
You didn't specify if the callers were in the blinds, but even if they were the only coldcallers, after your bet on the flop, the pot is laying him 7:1. Plenty of overlay to draw to his OESD with card odds of 4.75:1.

The turn gives him a few more outs. His play was fine. STBY.
-jay

"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
 
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Element187
Old 06-17-2005, 01:37 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutshot
You didn't specify if the callers were in the blinds, but even if they were the only coldcallers, after your bet on the flop, the pot is laying him 7:1. Plenty of overlay to draw to his OESD with card odds of 4.75:1.

The turn gives him a few more outs. His play was fine. STBY.
actually his play was bad .. calling a raise with 67 with only one other caller??

he shoulda folded preflop.

but on the flop was fine and he would be an idiot to fold the turn.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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gutshot
Old 06-17-2005, 03:17 PM #4 (permalink)  
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gutshot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
actually his play was bad .. calling a raise with 67 with only one other caller??

he shoulda folded preflop.

but on the flop was fine and he would be an idiot to fold the turn.
The OP never specified if the villain was in the BB or if his cards were suited. If he was both, the preflop play isn't that bad. I would want at least one more in the pot preflop to call 1 more bet with a 67s out of the BB probably.
-jay

"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
 
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Element187
Old 06-17-2005, 03:25 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutshot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
actually his play was bad .. calling a raise with 67 with only one other caller??

he shoulda folded preflop.

but on the flop was fine and he would be an idiot to fold the turn.
The OP never specified if the villain was in the BB or if his cards were suited. If he was both, the preflop play isn't that bad. I would want at least one more in the pot preflop to call 1 more bet with a 67s out of the BB probably.

when someone raises in EP i give it respect for AA/KK/AK/QQ i dont want to try out flopping that unless this pot is going to be 4 way or better.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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Phyl
Old 06-17-2005, 08:10 PM #6 (permalink)  
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If his 67 was suited and he was in the BB then his play in this hand while not optimal was fine.

Quote:
He said, "Oh, on the flop, I had plenty of outs." Really? I counted 8. Heads-up, I have no idea what he was thinking.
His odds on the flop depend on whether he was a blind or not but he was getting a minimum of 7-1 on his call. He has more than 8 outs which is at worst 5-1 to come in on the turn.

Folding the flop would have been a terrible play.
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