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Nut straight on a flush board, big pot

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arborman

11-06-2007, 03:38 PM Post subject: Nut straight on a flush board, big pot

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

Preflop: Hero is SB with T

, Q

.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) K

, J

, 8

(8 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

I donked for 2 reasons - an SB donk tends to get called by a lot of people, and a raise later in the turn could result in a lot of people calling into the next street. CO's play was bizarre and unexpected, but pot was big enough to call.
Turn: (15 BB) 6

(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

I'm not convinced my play was optimal on this street.

River: (31 BB) A

(4 players)

Hero???

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snowboard_31

11-06-2007, 04:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2007

Posts: 206

I like the donk on the unpaired rainbow board on the flop with so many people, you have the edge to get all those bets in and its +EV im pretty sure (Am i right?)

The turn gets pretty dirty tho. You have the pott odds to call the 2 bets but realizing that it was capped on the flop you have to think that its possible it gets capped when it gets back to you. So (worst case scenerio) when its to you after the two bets your probably expecting it to be capped behind you so you call 4 BB to win 23 BB (but could be mroe if UTG calls along). Thats just under 6:1 and enough to call with an open ender. At the same time though you might want to discount the two diamond outs to one out, even though someone backdooring the flush is unlikely its possible, for 7 outs to the straight. (7/46= 15%) So it seems your getting the pot odds to continue.

On the river I b/c.

Hows that?

1. Get a seat to their right
2. Steal blinds at will
3. ...
4. Profit
"It should be a crime to not bet if someone has checked to you twice."
-soupie
"If you can pinpoint a player's range, you can own his soul."
-Bond18

Hermann the Lombard

11-06-2007, 05:16 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 270

On the turn you're letting them do the betting which is fine except perhaps that it flags you as being on a draw. It doesn't look like they are on draws unless they are overplaying them, so odds seem good that you'll win if your straight comes in...Murphy notwithstanding. [On the flop after the donk you also let them do your betting.]

I bet/call the river too.

Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

arborman

11-06-2007, 06:27 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

What I was thinking:

1. Preflop was standard. If it had been raised (and it should have been by one of the aggro villains) I would have folded about 80% of the time, called 20%.

2. Flop I donked because with that many players it is an EV+ move. I expected a raise somewhere along there, which was also fine. I did not expect the call-3bet line from CO, but it didn't exactly increase my respect for his play, though I suspected an awkwardly played set.

3. Turn I was pretty weak IMO. I was unimproved but had 8 outs (6 solid, 2 less so with the flush draws), so 7 outs. I called the first time hoping (wrongly) that things would cool down. I called the second because I had the outs for the second call, though I wasn't happy about it.

4. For what it's worth, I didn't think anyone was chasing a flush in that hand, though someone might well have had two pair with a bdfd on the flop. But the hand hadn't played that way - with the possible exception of UTG, who had been passive so far.

So I checked, UTG checked, CO bet, button called (i.e. no flush). With that info I changed from check-call into checkraise. UTG folded, CO 3bet, button folded, I called.

KoRnholio

11-06-2007, 06:34 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

Looks good. CO probably has a set here, and virtually never a flush.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

bigspenda73

11-06-2007, 06:46 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

unless UTG wakes up you can put in as many bets as you want on this river.

DrivingDog

11-06-2007, 09:29 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

unless UTG wakes up you can put in as many bets as you want on this river.

Unless he wakes up with A6. Pot's big and you're hand is good here much more than your share of the time so i'm willing to cap here pretty much every time.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Jibalob

11-06-2007, 09:35 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Out of my roll

Posts: 512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

On the turn you're letting them do the betting which is fine except perhaps that it flags you as being on a draw. .

This really isnt an issue - he s never ever going to win this hand without a showdown anyway.

Quote:

Flop: (8 SB) K , J , 8 (8 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Umm... collusion anyone?

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Ragnar4

11-12-2007, 05:29 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

I Have a REALLY hard time believing that anyone would have chased a flushdraw like that.

Nut straight on a backdoor flush? I think I bet raise cap. Maaaaybe I"m just way too aggressive though.

As for your turn. There's no way you're folding. Pot is way too large. You need 5 to one on your money. Which means with 3 other people in the pot, it's not worth a raise. But it is worth a call. You're about as optimal as it gets.

If you were heads up. I would have reccommended aggresive semi-bluffing on the turn.

I really hope you didn't get runnerrunnerd

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

Hermann the Lombard

11-12-2007, 04:03 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 270

The only reason I might not put extra bets in on the river is there's a good chance I'm splitting the pot (along with the chance of a flush). That sounds like bet/call rather than bet/3-bet but I might be chicken and check/call expecting to put in about two bets anyway.

Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

DrivingDog

11-12-2007, 06:09 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

The only reason I might not put extra bets in on the river is there's a good chance I'm splitting the pot (along with the chance of a flush).

There's almost no chance we're splitting the pot here. Look at the flop and turn betting. Both opponents raised and re-raised on both streets. No-one does that with QT or a four flush (which wasn't even there on the flop) unless they are a maniac.

CO's play (calling then 3betting the flop) is consistent with a set he intended to slowplay. Could be 88. Btn's play is also consistent with a big made hand on the flop, possibly KJ.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Hermann the Lombard

11-13-2007, 05:03 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 270

DD: Thanks, I see your point.

(I've just tripped over a lot of maniacs recently. Last night at .10/.20 I was watching a couple of players at the table stone cold bluffing. Actually one of those was distinctly *not* a maniac, running 29% VP$IP, I just think he was playing at the wrong limit!)

Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

littleogre

11-13-2007, 05:12 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,344

littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past

with that many people and a huge draw don't we have the equity to pump the flop?

mk84

11-29-2007, 06:03 PM

#14 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Crazyyy

pokerfanatic

11-29-2007, 06:30 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

with that much action i think i go for a c/r on the river...

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"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

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