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Chopper

03-30-2009, 02:40 PM Post subject: now for the loo-hoo-hoo-zerrrrs..

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

one.. do you get away from the 3bet here w/o a great read? i dont see how i can..

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, 10

2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls

Flop: (7 SB) 4

, A

, 10

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) Q

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls

River: (10.5 BB) 9

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

Total pot: $25 (12.5 BB) | Rake: $1

Results in white below:
Hero mucked Q

, 10

(two pair, Queens and tens).
SB had 10

, A

(two pair, Aces and tens).
Outcome: SB won $24

two... this could be really bad, but i want critique on my thoughts, not the actual hand, plz.

i have no "realistic" read on this guy at the time. so, i'm not giving it to you, either...lol. i feel the check on the flop means he doesnt like his hand much, but i tell him i dont like mine, either. the turn raise is likely spew, but i felt he was bluffing the K, so i bluffed it back....thinking he folds. the 3bet made me "wtf," but i was getting close to the correct odds at this point for my nut-gutter, right? and with an easy one more bet on the river, if i hit, it is correct. after his 3bet, we are calling $2 into $16...or 8:1. collect one on the end, we get almost b/e, but there is a huge chance he leads, i raise, and he calls....for 2 more. therefore, i am 10:1 when i hit. isnt that a chance worth taking? after all, he is like NEVER bluffing by now, imo. however, i make the dumbest puke/call on the river ever because i talked myself into the pot size and "one more" to pick off any chance of a bluff. i assume, though, that was really bad since i already told myself there was zero chance of a bluff here? arrrrgh.

do we just fold to the 3bet, or was i right in my call if i fold the whiffed river?

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, A

4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls

Flop: (6 SB) J

, 6

, K

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (3 BB) K

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls

River: (9 BB) 4

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

Total pot: $22 (11 BB) | Rake: $1

Results in white below:
SB had K

, J

(full house, Kings over Jacks).
Hero mucked Q

, A

(one pair, Kings).
Outcome: SB won $21

three.. i assume all is standard until the river raise? this is obviously spewy, but i felt i could shut out the third player. i also felt there was a chance mcdonk was bluffing, too. obviously, this is just a call and hope the donker is bluffing and the guy behind will make an odds-based call with middle pair. but, are we better off just folding here?

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, K

1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero raises, MP calls, SB calls

Flop: (6 SB) J

, 10

, Q

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) 4

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls

River: (7.5 BB) 4

(3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls

Total pot: $23 (11.5 BB) | Rake: $1

Results in white below:
SB had 6

, J

(flush, Queen high).
Hero had Q

, K

(two pair, Queens and fours).
Outcome: SB won $22

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KoRnholio

03-30-2009, 06:57 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

1. IPITS

2. Whenever I get into 3bet bluffs like this I always kick myself after. I would just bet the flop and go from there.

3. Just call. I am not worried about MP having us beat, but the SB very well could have a flush here with his donk bet on the river. Calling one bet gives us a showdown, whereas raising opens us up to a 3bet, and only really getting called (or raised) if we are beat. We are still behind QJ and QT, and no one is folding a queen there when we try to rep KK/AA with a raise.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

DrivingDog

03-30-2009, 07:33 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

1) It's tough and you need a read to fold here imo. OTOH there are a lot of his pf 3bet hands that beat us, AA, QQ, TT, AQ, AT, KJ and if I'm on my A-game I will sometimes puke-fold the turn because we will be drawing to less than 4 outs often enough to make it a bad idea to keep on.

2) wtf? It takes a special kind of maniac/tiltmonster to 3bet bluff the turn. You are never winning here without a miracle. p.s. if you 3bet pf the flop c-bet is automatic.

3) I don't want to be putting in any more than one bet on this river. By donking he's basically saying "I have TPTK beat" and you're saying "I can beat that" and he is saying "ah well i guess i better call just in case he's spewing." Then you say "oops" and he says "gee thanks".

Even if he's doing something silly with JT or whatever you still want overcalls from the guy behind you.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

bigspenda73

03-30-2009, 07:50 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

1 whatevs probably not enough -/+ ev to matter
2 bet the flop
3 river raise is bad

P-Wolf

03-31-2009, 06:21 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: London

Posts: 1

1 - Honestly I think you can fold the 3-bet on the Turn. The action pre and on the flop just makes it almost spot on he has an ace. Sure it could be a big pair that is ignoring it but when you get 3-bet I can't see anything you beat that follows the same line throughout the hand.

2 - I think if you bet the flop you can get away from the impending check-raise that is coming. Generally I think a 3-bet on the turn is either them trying to out bluff you or they are picking up speed with what they hit on the flop. I don't like your thinking on the Turn, I think you're talking yourself into drawing for a hand that may not even be a winner, especially with the paired board.

3 - I hate the river raise. If you think he'll do this bluffing then just call. Too often a llne of check, check, bet is when they get there. If they try to bluff it you're calling and catching them without risking extra bets when they aren't b-sing.

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