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DrivingDog
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08-31-2007, 09:54 AM
Post subject: non-textbook blind defense hand for Fnord
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Villian was pretty new to me, and had open-raised from the SB the last two times it was folded to him. I"d had to fold bad hands both those times but this time i picked up K8o and called.
In about the 30 hands i'd seen him play overall, he seemed slightly aggro but not over the top.
Thinking the turn call mighta been kinda dumb here (thoughts?) but since he open-raised three in a row from SB I didn't give him credit for an Ace. River is easy call.
Anyone re-raise preflop just to tell Villian to bugger off with the steals?
PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 8 .
3 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.
Flop: (4 SB) 9 , 2, 5 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
River: (5 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 7 BB
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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What were your thoughts when you called the turn? What did you put him on?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
What were your thoughts when you called the turn? What did you put him on?
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It's hard to put a guy who's raised 3 times in a row from the SB on anything specific. The turn bet could mean a flush draw which i could well be ahead of, or some other kind of 'please fold' bet.
I'm not really that optimistic here, but from a meta-game perspective i'm inclined to go to showdown even if I don't hit the river just to show him i'm not easy pickings. Against typical opponents who don't raise 100% from the SB i'm definitely folding the turn.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
What were your thoughts when you called the turn? What did you put him on?
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It's hard to put a guy who's raised 3 times in a row from the SB on anything specific. The turn bet could mean a flush draw which i could well be ahead of, or some other kind of 'please fold' bet. |
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm going for...if we think his range is essentially random and he plays it this way whether he hit or missed, I think call/call/call is not horrible, especially with some metagame benefits, assuming we think this is a thinking-ish player.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Turn call is a little spewy. I think raising is a better play if we're going to continue.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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3bet PF plz
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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The turn call is a bit loose. He probably doesn't have an ace, but there are still a lot of random pair hands he could have. There are also some bluffs that you can't beat.
Strangely, I was messing around with a deck of cards when I read this post, and I dealt out two holdem hands, one to myself and another to a hypothetical opponent, and I dealt myself K-8 offsuit. Weird.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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anyone else re-raise the flop here? I doubt he hit....
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Turn call is a little spewy. I think raising is a better play if we're going to continue.
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I like, i like. Give him a chance to fold the turn and if we're 3 bet we can safely fold. Costs the same as c/c turn c/c river line and improves chances of winning.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
anyone else re-raise the flop here? I doubt he hit....
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It's tempting, but too many guys will 3bet the flop with overcards to make this worthwhile with K high imo. Then again, if he just calls my c/r it's a pretty easy turn lead, and if he raises the turn i can be done with the hand.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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KY_Ace
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 259
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You have no pair and no draw, you should fold on the turn, i would raise the turn with a gutshot straight draw, open ended straight draw, flush draw or an ace or better here and call down with any other pair. If you're gonna make a move on someone with no pair and no draw, you should do it on a paired board or a low board if you think they're raising big cards only. With 4 different cards on the turn they will have a pair or better with 2 random cards 48% of the time, even more if straights and flushes are possible, they will also have draws sometimes when they don't have pairs and they can river something to call you with. If this guy is stealing with 50% of his hands, then you can be sure he's stealing with any ace which makes this even more dangerous.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KY_Ace
If this guy is stealing with 50% of his hands, then you can be sure he's stealing with any ace which makes this even more dangerous.
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So far he's stealing with 100% of his hands which is what is making me loosen up here. I don't want him to think he can just run me over every hand. Any other situation i think the turn is an extremely easy fold.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Villian had 44. Afterwards i thought it's possible he just caught three good hands in a row, but if all i do is fold everytime his raising and betting standards are just going to get lower and lower.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
So far he's stealing with 100% of his hands which is what is making me loosen up here.
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I would be wary of making assumptions about the range of hands he is willing to raise in this position based on such a tiny sample size.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
3bet PF plz
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This
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
So far he's stealing with 100% of his hands which is what is making me loosen up here.
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I would be wary of making assumptions about the range of hands he is willing to raise in this position based on such a tiny sample size. |
well yeah, but even if he's raising 40% of his hands, there's only a 6.4% chance he gets 3 raising hands in a row. So my sense was that after I folded to the first two raises it was time to make a stand.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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