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non "abc" play to create a pot...

  
 
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Chopper
Old 04-02-2009, 05:27 AM     Post subject: non "abc" play to create a pot... #1 (permalink)  
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Chopper
since our raiser is so freaking short, do we like the call here to let the sb in since we likely have a nice edge post flop......and, can outplay the donkey anyway?

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($31.05)
CO ($1.50)
Button ($25.50)
Hero (SB) ($38.50)
BB ($30)
UTG ($4.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
2 folds, CO bets $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($3) Q, 2, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO raises to $0.50 (All-In), Hero calls $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($4.50) 7 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $1, 1 fold

River: ($4.50) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.50
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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PlayinLdP
Old 04-02-2009, 12:17 PM #2 (permalink)  

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PlayinLdP
Chopper I see what you are trying to achieve but I dont' think it's the most profitable play. I don't mind isolating the CO here for $1.50 and seeing him to a showdown with the best drawing hand AK. It strength lies in seeing all 5 cards and you have a perfect opportunity to do that. It's all about small edges and I think this is one. You don't want to allow the bb in cheap and flop a pair of dueces or something similar and take you for a few extra bets. The only hand I would do this with is AA and that could still get you in trouble.
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Muzzard
Old 04-02-2009, 01:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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stick to limit
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Chopper
Old 04-02-2009, 01:12 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
stick to limit
muzz, please understand the the converter SUCKS for Cake hands. this WAS limit. i wouldnt dream of doing this in a NL hand.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Muzzard
Old 04-02-2009, 01:14 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
stick to limit
muzz, please understand the the converter SUCKS for Cake hands. this WAS limit. i wouldnt dream of doing this in a NL hand.
lol. i got ownd
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Chopper
Old 04-02-2009, 01:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
stick to limit
muzz, please understand the the converter SUCKS for Cake hands. this WAS limit. i wouldnt dream of doing this in a NL hand.
lol. i got ownd
lol....np
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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KoRnholio
Old 04-02-2009, 04:36 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I just re-raise to fold out the BB. Just calling gives him 5-1 to outflop us. Hard for him to make a mistake there. But if we just reraise to isolate, we have a significant edge with no more betting left plus the dead blind in the pot.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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LawDude
Old 04-02-2009, 06:48 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzard
stick to limit
muzz, please understand the the converter SUCKS for Cake hands. this WAS limit. i wouldnt dream of doing this in a NL hand.
Yep, if that's no limit, I want to play at that table-- where everyone always makes minimum bets and raises.
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 11:33 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayinLdP
Chopper I see what you are trying to achieve but I dont' think it's the most profitable play. I don't mind isolating the CO here for $1.50 and seeing him to a showdown with the best drawing hand AK. It strength lies in seeing all 5 cards and you have a perfect opportunity to do that. It's all about small edges and I think this is one. You don't want to allow the bb in cheap and flop a pair of dueces or something similar and take you for a few extra bets. The only hand I would do this with is AA and that could still get you in trouble.
+1
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Chopper
Old 04-05-2009, 01:23 PM #10 (permalink)  
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let me ask this....for devil's advocate purposes, as i thought that wouldnt go over well being AK.

but, if i know i have a HUGE edge over this guy post flop (the guy with money behind), why dont i want to take all pots with him to the turn and river if i can? meaning, why do i want to raise a guy that has nothing left, just to take a small pot, when many more times than not, i will outplay the other guy on the bigger streets? if i lose, i lose......this hand. but, why dont i want to keep putting myself in the spots with the BIGGEST edges as opposed to continually taking the smaller ones if i can control the situations?

he folds if i raise, but i would gladly take him on post flop with hands worse than AK. anyone agree with that? seems we are too busy taking the "sure thing" as opposed to going after bigger edges when they are rather obvious. i am not saying i want to slowplay a lot of hands against him.....because that isnt outplaying him post flop most times.

say for instance, we had AA. i think calling and letting him in is more EV than raising because we have such a large post flop advantage. give me that hand 100 times and i will take way more off him by letting him in than trying to isolate the guy holding pennies. am i going to win all of the pots i play? no. but, i will get this guy in bigger pots, with the worst of it, if i allow him to hang himself preflop, imo.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 02:17 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I dunno... I really want to charge him preflop. And I want him to get used to paying to see those first 3cards to try and outdraw me.
The problem also is being oop, even with that edge you may have you will get punished more than usual if he outdraws you, while getting just a couple bets off him when he doesn't.
We tend to sometimes forget how that "edge" we have is significantly higher/lower whether we are in position or oop.
Another issue will be dealing with him when there is a main pot, and a 0BB sidepot. Things will change radically.
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Chopper
Old 04-05-2009, 02:26 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
Another issue will be dealing with him when there is a main pot, and a 0BB sidepot. Things will change radically.
ok. now, how so? as this is what i was, specifically, trying to create here....correctly or incorrectly.

i wanted a side pot starting, that may elicit him to overplay a weak hand, possibly try and bluff me out. the shorty was so short, it didnt matter much, imo. we were showing down with him regardless. however, i figured he would play his hand much more "face up" against me if he DID outdraw me because people seem to fight over hogging the short stack even if its only 2BB's. and, i figure he may call me down light when i connect because he may feel i am doing the same thing to him....trying to bully him out because of the shorty.

it really doesnt matter much, as the "edge" in these games is much larger in many, many other spots. i just thought it was a neat scenario to bring up....for future thought...and discussion.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 02:45 PM #13 (permalink)  
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actually, there would be no side pot most of the time

you all call PF,

A-u check to the shortie, he sticks it in, you both call
B-u check to the shortie, he sticks it in, you raise
C-u bet, they both call
D-u bet, BB raises, shortie calls

those are the likeliest scenarios and only when u c/r or BB raises your lead (cases B and D) is there a side pot brewing (a small one). When u c/r you shut him out and will mostly only get action you may not want. When he raises, that could be trouble.

With no side pot on the turn, tho, (cases A and C). What do you do oop if you whiffed? do you bluff? Not much use to bluff cause you are risking extra money, for no side pot and still would need to show down your hand vs shortie (who beats you with any pair). Do you check? What then? call? again, with no side pot there is hardly any incentive at all to draw to your overcards. Fold? wouldn't that suck?

If turn goes check check... well, even if u hit and end up winner... u didn't get much more.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
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When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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siltstrider
Old 06-09-2009, 02:01 AM #14 (permalink)  
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If he folds flop so much, why don't you just isolate him lighter? You should still have your huge skill edge post-flop, too, no?
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cohenleonard
Old 06-09-2009, 06:28 PM #15 (permalink)  
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doesnt outplaying folks at these stakes, mean you hope they dont make any pair if you miss and then you can make them fold with cbets? id isolate and be happy with the 2bbs.
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