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Renton

02-17-2006, 11:01 PM Post subject: New to limit

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Check these hands out:

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T

, J

.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4

, T

, J

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ts Js (two pair, jacks and tens).
UTG+2 has Qs Ad (two pair, queens and fours).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 8.50 BB.

Hand 2:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2

, 3

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9

, 5

, 4

(6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG+2 caps, CO calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 6

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO raises, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below:
UTG+2 has 4s 4c (three of a kind, fours).
CO has 9h 9d (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: CO wins 17.50 BB.

I was pretty distressed over the second hand result. Should I have called the river jammed pot? I didn't have proper pot odds, but maybe with implied odds?

{Edit by PokerFanatic}
{Use Hand Converter found here: http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter/hhconverter.cgi}

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midas06

02-17-2006, 11:26 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T

, J

.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4

, T

, J

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2

, 3

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9

, 5

, 4

(6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG+2 caps, CO calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 6

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO raises, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Demiparadigm

02-17-2006, 11:49 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

1 I bet the flop, 2 I call the turn.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

euphoricism

02-17-2006, 11:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

I dunno wtf is going on in hand 2, but I think I probably fold it there. Your A outs look tainted to me.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Renton

02-18-2006, 12:30 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I dunno wtf is going on in hand 2, but I think I probably fold it there. Your A outs look tainted to me.

whaddya mean?

My outs were the nuts.

edit: well four of them were.

ArcticKnight

02-18-2006, 12:43 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Hand 1 - bet the flop
Hand 2 - even with 11:1 out of the SB, I think Im folding 23os for fear of what I might catch on the flop/turn that I can't let go of. Too many of these "look-see-for-almost- free" hands have cost me $, but that speaks more to my poor post-flop decisions I guess.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

Renton

02-18-2006, 12:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Hand 1 - bet the flop

You don't check raise for more value here?

Once again disclaimer: I am new to limit. I thought anytime you wanted to get full value for a hand a check raise is a good idea, since you get the extra bet.

Renton

02-18-2006, 01:40 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4

, 4

. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3

, T

, 4

(5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: (6.25 BB) 2

(3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

should I have gotten more value here?

midas06

02-18-2006, 02:22 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Bet the turn.

euphoricism

02-18-2006, 03:29 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I dunno wtf is going on in hand 2, but I think I probably fold it there. Your A outs look tainted to me.

whaddya mean?

My outs were the nuts.

edit: well four of them were.

'zactly, and when is drawing to four clean outs a good idea? Rarely.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

ArcticKnight

02-18-2006, 07:01 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Hand 1 - bet the flop

Hi Renton, and a belated welcome to LHE

Normally I try and think through the scenerios of a bet versus a C/R here as to which we would be most likely to cause a drawing hand (or hands) to pay the wrong price. But I didn't even get there.

My first reaction was that there was no pre-flop aggressor behind you (as everyone limped), so I would have bet. Last thing you want is free cards with OESD or flush draws on a board like this.....

.....not to mention the next you know you have two players calling your turn bet looking for the river end of a runner-runner. Your out of position so you may not be caring too much about whether they are calling for the right price when a river scare cards hits.

In NL you I can see where a C/R could force any better behind you who is on a draw into tough spot if you make your C/R bet high enough, but you can't control the bet size here.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

Renton

02-18-2006, 06:53 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I dunno wtf is going on in hand 2, but I think I probably fold it there. Your A outs look tainted to me.

whaddya mean?

My outs were the nuts.

edit: well four of them were.

'zactly, and when is drawing to four clean outs a good idea? Rarely.

I had a very compelling reason to know all eight of my outs were clean: The two villains capped the bets on the turn. I was obviously facing a set vs set or set vs two pair situation. None of my outs would pair the board (obviously) so if I hit either of them I was sure to win this pot.

Right?

euphoricism

02-18-2006, 08:37 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Possibly, but not positively. I wouldn't fault you for a turn call. I'm saying its probably close either way.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

pokerfanatic

02-18-2006, 10:16 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Possibly, but not positively. I wouldn't fault you for a turn call. I'm saying its probably close either way.

Hand 1:
i like it, i think you're good here at least you value bet the river...

Hand 2:
Umm, 10:1 to complete i guess you could with 23o but I don't like to, on the flop i donk out, figuring UTG/+1 both call and even if CO calls it's same amount of money going in, if CO raises you call and now you have double bets going in, so the turn you would be getting either 4.5:1 or 8.5:1 to draw so you could theoretically c/c both situations for 1 bet but only c/c a bet and one raise if it's 8.5:2... but as played you call one and it gets raised and 3bet, figuring you only have to put in 2 extra and it wont be capped then you have odds to do so, 4.5 +1 + your call = 6.5 so the raise makes it 8.5 the 3bet makes it 10.5:2 or 5.5:1 so really you have the odds to call here even if you think it might be capped you figure 12.5:3 or about 4:1 with implied odds if you hit 4:1 is more then enough to play, and if it's not capped you don't need implied odds...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

outphase

02-19-2006, 01:13 AM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Hand 1 - bet the flop

While partially true, you don't have the indication of the likely aggressor. You're better off betting out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

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