|
bigspenda73
|
07-09-2006, 08:27 AM
Post subject: Need some advice
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
I am such a Donkey--let me just lead off with that.
So I arrive at the casino tonight and there is a customary wait for the 2/4 game. So I'm being a railbird and watching a 2/4 game in progress, the players are all poor, one guy is having an amazing run, and I'm licking my chops. I'm seated and guess what? I get thrown right into the mix of the table I've been watching for half an hour. I thought it was a blessing, I already had labeled half the table and had a good idea on how everyone played. So I sit down and soon realize it is the loosest table I have sat at in some time. I cannot manage to pick up a hand in the first hour and everytime I fold k7o and see someone turn over the nuts holding 85o I start realizing I need to loosen up. So I do, I start playing 67o k8s and a whole bunch of other rag hands. However, I cannot connect. I win one pot in the first two hours and Ive lost 15BB atleast. I take an A9d all the way and am subject to a cruel 3 outer. I need to know how to play against these types of tables, most importantly hand selection. I was not getting dealt anything worth looking at but it seemed they were monsters to the rest of the table. Anyone have any suggestions on how to play against a loose and passive full ring live game. I know this is a long post but I could really use the advice. I understand tonight was a bad run of cards but one win out of approx. 60 hands, thats frickin ridiculous.
Thanks ppl
'spenda
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
07-09-2006, 08:42 AM
Post subject: Re: Need some advice
|
#2 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
Instead of being helpful myself, I am going to refer you to a book. If you don't have SSH, get it and read it. It's the most profitable thing you can do for your poker game right now. This book was written with loose low-stakes tables in mind, and it will help you with a lot more than starting hand selection.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
Yep, I keep meaning to go to the bookstore and pick that SOB up, I hear its the bible for the type of game I am finding myself in. I heard it was a bit of a difficult read though, from what I understand Skalansky did not major in English. I am the son of two accountants, completely left-brained, and a self-proclaimed math genius. I can calculate pot odds and equity like you wouldn't believe; however, I cannot for the life of me figure out these tables. Hopefully this book will help. However, if anyone has any immediate advice I'd appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
Xanadu
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
|
|
If the super loose table is also passive, the main adjustment is to limp from EP the hands you would normally do so from MP at a more typically loose table. The hand requirements in SSH are split into 3-5 to see the flop and 6-8 to see the flop, and there are 2 major differences. First is what I just said above, and second is to raise in late position with good multiway hands after a lot of limpers.
You want to loosen up some, but not a lot. You specifically want to limp in from even UTG with good multi-way hands. Any pp, suited connectors and 1-gappers down to maybe 87s and T8s (not exactly sure on the cutoff here but this should be close), Any suited A, Any 2 suited cards both 8 or higher. All of these hands win at least 14.5% of the time against 10 players seeing the flop and staying in to the river. You do not loosen up any in MP, but can add a few hands in the right situation in LP ... lots of limpers and no raises. Call liberally from the SB, but don't bother with junk like Q6o (because of the high risk of domination, you won't know where you are at without at least trips, and will have a hard time post flop even if you might technically be correct to call based on your hand's winning chances and pot odds).
You are also going to raise a lot more hands, mostly from late position, but if the table is just as loose after a raise, you can raise good multi-way hands from any position really. Hands you would usually never raise now become value raises when 8 people are seeing the flop. Against 9 random hands, JTs wins 18% of the time, and you might be surprised to know it fares better than A9s, KQ0, AQ0, and 99. QJs is better than AK0. Hands like A2o, K7o are only average hands and should generally not be played out of the blinds. At best they will only increase variance.
You will run into a lot of variance if you play to get the max out of a table this loose. You will see a lot of flops, fold a lot of flops, fold after seeing a lot of turns.
Post flop, you need to continue with hands you have the odds to draw to, and bet and raise your strong draws. You need to keep in mind that it will often take a big hand to win a pot. An overcard draw doesn't have near the value it usually does.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
Thanks Xanadu, that is some good advice. I never thought about being so aggressive in EP with suited connectors, hell, I had been folding some hands you were telling me to raise with UTG. Looks like I really need the book.
|
|
|
|
Xanadu
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
|
|
Just be sure to raise the more marginal hands with discretion in EP. It sucks to raise JTs UTG, have only 2 callers and be OOP the whole hand. You need a really loose passive table for this. You need to expect a minimum of maybe 4 callers (guessing) to pull shit like that and turn a profit. It is a big difference to raise JTs in the CO after 4 or 5 limpers and expecting a 7-way pot with position.
Another thing you might consider is limping strong offsuit hands like AK and AQ when in EP if raising doesn't thin the field at all. The idea is to keep the pot small enough that you can use your position to leverage people out of the pot on the flop. You are hoping for a top pair flop and a CO or Button bet that you can raise to face the field with 2 bets without a pot so large they can profitably call with bad draws. I usually don't like this limping strong hands to control the pot idea, but I can see a lot of merit at a super loose table with strong offsuit hands, especially in EP.
|
|
|
|
Xanadu
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xanadu
Another thing you might consider is limping strong offsuit hands like AK and AQ when in EP if raising doesn't thin the field at all. The idea is to keep the pot small enough that you can use your position to leverage people out of the pot on the flop. You are hoping for a top pair flop and a CO or Button bet that you can raise to face the field with 2 bets without a pot so large they can profitably call with bad draws. I usually don't like this limping strong hands to control the pot idea, but I can see a lot of merit at a super loose table with strong offsuit hands, especially in EP.
|
If flop check-raises don't thin the field, you must just value-raise these hands preflop and hope for the best. Sometimes at these tables all you can do is value bet.
|
|
|
|
CFH
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11
|
|
I also have SSH.
But i think u should just play tight! Yes it may take one or two hours, but u will get good cards.
Why do ya want to play looser? There is no point in that!
Just keep it simple.
On a tight table play loose!
On a loose table play tight!
Simple as that!
|
|
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CFH
I also have SSH.
But i think u should just play tight! Yes it may take one or two hours, but u will get good cards.
Why do ya want to play looser? There is no point in that!
Just keep it simple.
On a tight table play loose!
On a loose table play tight!
Simple as that!
|
Sort of. If the table is going multiway for 1 bet, mid suited-connectors, suited one gappers, small pocket pairs, etc can be major monkey making monsters.
|
|
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CFH
On a tight table play loose!
On a loose table play tight!
|
This isn't quite right. The relationship is more like this:
On a passive table, play loose.
On an aggressive table, play tight.
You'll be missing out on tons of value by folding good multiway hands in pots that are likely to be multiway.
|
|
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by euphoricism
major monkey making monsters
|
Sounds like a B-movie title. Or maybe a Dr. Seuss book.
|
|
|
|
CFH
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CFH
On a tight table play loose!
On a loose table play tight!
|
This isn't quite right. The relationship is more like this:
On a passive table, play loose. |
I dont agree with that. On a passive table i think aggressive is right not loose!
Tight doesnt mean that u dont play good multiway hands. U play them, but only in good position and not everytime, like loose players do!
@ euphoricism
Yeah right, but if u play this kind of hands always, than u play loose.
Play them when the time is right, but not too much.
Find a balance, but dont play like the table. Why?
What if the table is on tilt!?
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
