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Ragnar4

01-23-2008, 09:11 AM Post subject: My limit rant

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

I sat down at my favorite, and by favorite I mean only, poker haunt in the area. Mr. Z's poker room in Pullman, Wa. I had been railbirding for about half an hour to 45 minutes just being patient while the little poker dude in my brain was jumping up and down yelling and screaming: "please, for the love of god would someone please bust out of this game. It's so juicy!"

They say that if you sit down at a table and you can't spot the fish in the first 30 minutes, you are the fish. The truth of the matter is, I smelled this fish from outside. It took me all of 5 minutes railing the table to see this guy was a loose passive calling station with a perpensity to tilt to maniac for a few hands then quiet back down to call, call, call, curse and muck. There were a few other bad players, but nothing as terrible as this. In 45 minutes I watched him drop 200 dollars on the table. 2-8 spread can drain a BR pretty quickly at 100 dollars a pop, but then again he won a few big hands too, so he was actually more down like 400 in that time.

I literally watched him limp, then call the max bet all the way down to the river over, and over and over, and he was just absolutely plumping the table.

Finally the agony was over when one of the more solid TAg players got knocked out. I say he's solid TAg, but he doesn't adjust well to LAggy tables. He stood up in disgust and grumbled something about idiots as he walked out. Oh well. For the next 45 minutes I played tight, joking around with Brad, the guy to my right, a very solid aggressive, but overly imaginative player. Just waiting for a good hand.

The point of my story comes up here: At one point the guy to my left, I forget his name, was takling, a LOT about his hands, ranges of his opponents, how he was an observant player. It was stupid really. No good player ever talks about how good he is at the table, he was trying to impress us and he was failing. Mostly because he wasn't being aggressive enough with his cards. Anyway the guy to my left (we'll call him lefty) Raises in the small blind to the max (10) with the Mr. Fish on the other end of the table already having limped, and another player who was also pretty much just a donator for the night. Traditional wisdom suggests that you should be willing to only Raise like that with AA, KK, AKs QQ. Because you're against an idiot who won't fold, an unknown with position on you, and you're representing what is traditionally accepted as a nut hand.

One thing that is interesting about this game is that they don't mind players talking about their hand, while they are in the hand, with the few guys that are close enough to hear. If you're nice, they'll even flash the cards they are playing with. Lefty was no different, I complimented him a couple of times for being a donkey, and here he is, showing me 88 (snowmen) both red. When he says. I'm happy to take a flip here for all my money. He had about 25 bucks left in front of him, and I realized he was going to bet/raise every street until he was all in, or had only one buck left.

I want to analyze this situation. First off, against Mr. Fish, he's probably waaaay ahead of a flip. Like 60/40 versus the ENTIRE range, and to be honest, he's probalby closer to 70/30 at this point. Against the unknown donator, who was more passive, he may have only been a slight coinflip favorite. But against both guys at the table, he's not a coinflip. So why would you say something like that?

Second. 88 is an interesting spot to get into, because roughly half the deck is overs half is unders, and Mr. Loose is unbluffable. But here's where I differ. IF you do in fact consider 88 to be a coinflip to the river here, why in the world would you play it against MR. Loose. Are you that desperate to add to your stack? If you honestly believe that you're at a coinflip, why not fold and wait for a situation where you're an immediate, identifiable favorite and THEN pound your opponent? Now we've already established that he was better than a coinflip, and probably got his money in good, but he did it for the wrong reasons. If you get your money in good, but you did it for the wrong reasons, it's as bad as getting your money in bad. Because next time, you might make the same decision and actually get your money in bad, out of position, and with negative equity in a situation where you don't close the betting even!

What I'm getting at is, if you think your hand is a coinflip against a player who is this terrible, wait for a better spot. I promse with him playing every had he has, you'll eventually pick up an ace, any ace, and you'll be able to get your money in good against him Preflop. More importantly, you should only be willing to take coinflips against players who are better than you. And in this situation, I think a solid TAG player would be in a coinflip situation here, but then a solid TAg player would re-raise to isolate with his two big cards.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

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Jibalob

01-23-2008, 11:31 PM Post subject: Re: My limit rant

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Out of my roll

Posts: 512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

he was trying to impress us and he was failing.

This is why

/thread (jk)

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15outs

01-25-2008, 11:09 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 17

I've never been called "overly imaginitive" but the solid ag part i like. I think Zac is way more "overly imaginitive" than me, i would say "gets bored easily and donks off his monies," is more my style. Also, it's not that we allow players to talk about their hands while in play, it's that so many of those tards do it, over and over, that we get tired of warning the same people about the same crap all time. If it was a bigger room we'd treat it differently, but since it's all regulars, management want us to back off of it.
I would comment about the 88, but since i lost the rest of my money to you with 88 knowing it was coinflip i won't say anything, and damn Brandon for calling me to hit that freakin 9 on the turn, the pissed me off that he called for that.

Ragnar4

01-25-2008, 11:38 PM Post subject: Re: My limit rant

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

What I'm getting at is, if you think your hand is a coinflip against a player who is this terrible, wait for a better spot. I promse with him playing every had he has, you'll eventually pick up an ace, any ace, and you'll be able to get your money in good against him Preflop. More importantly, you should only be willing to take coinflips against players who are better than you. And in this situation, I think a solid TAG player would be in a coinflip situation here, but then a solid TAg player would re-raise to isolate with his two big cards.

Emphasis mine

LoL.
I really respect your play dude and to be honest, I'm not trying to say I'm better than you... maybe "as good as"... but you're in a completely different spot calling off with 88 as a coinflip against me, than us getting it all in as a superfavorite against a guy who plays like he's a 95/1.

Saying you're "overly imaginitive" is a nice way to say "gets bored when the blinds are 1/2 and calls off lots of monies because he's not paying attention, and reading an econ book at the table. Zac on the otherhand.. used to be crazy aggro.. but turns out he's tightened up and become waaay more solid.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

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