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my first super big huge ass pot in 2/4, AQo, readin exercise

  
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-17-2005, 04:11 AM     Post subject: my first super big huge ass pot in 2/4, AQo, readin exercise #1 (permalink)  
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|~|ypermegachi
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, Q.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (15.50 SB) 6, 2, 4 (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) Q (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, BB is all-in, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (22.37 BB) 9 (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 22.37 BB
Main Pot: 22.37 BB, between Hero, Button, BB and UTG+1.

fine it's maybe not super big huge ass...but that 22.37BB = $90 which looks like a shitload for a 1/2 player who just moved up
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-17-2005, 04:20 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Did you win this hand?

Cuz you played it horribly....either raise the flop or fold.


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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-17-2005, 04:30 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Did you win this hand?

Cuz you played it horribly....either raise the flop or fold.
really you think it was that bad?

i gave BB credit for a good hand. he's pretty tight, so basically any hand he would 3bet preflop has me dominated on a flop like that.

the pot is big enough however that i think raising won't protect my hand. CO raised, so i think he was pumping the flush draw. if i raised, CO and everyone after is getting 10:1 to call.

i was hoping to speed up on the turn to protect my hand, which i did.

well might as well let you guys guess the result....interesting hand reading exercise nonetheless.
 
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Fnord
Old 01-17-2005, 03:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Cuz you played it horribly....either raise the flop or fold.
You so silly.

My only suggestion is betting the river for value. Also consider re-raising the turn if the betting was re-opened. BB might have you smoked, but you have a lot of equity in the side pot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-17-2005, 03:19 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Cuz you played it horribly....either raise the flop or fold.
You so silly.

My only suggestion is betting the river for value. Also consider re-raising the turn if the betting was re-opened. BB might have you smoked, but you have a lot of equity in the side pot.
yeah you hit this one right on the nail. if i was ahead, i missed out on a lot of side pot bets from the other 2, if they were still drawing. anyways, might as well post results.

one dude was open ended, the other dude was chasing the gutshot wheel. BB has QQ for the set. so i definitely lost out on at least 2 bets on the turn, and maybe a crying call on the river with one guy with 55. the other one had ace high.
 
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zenbitz
Old 01-17-2005, 06:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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At first I agreed with Jeff... but I am not so sure now.

This is a wacky hand, especially with the winner running out of chips. I probably would have capped the flop, especially since the BB had only 5 BB left.

I didn't understand the call on the flop at all until I realized it's 5 way, and the only PF strength is from the short stack
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Fnord
Old 01-17-2005, 06:53 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
probably would have capped the flop, especially since the BB had only 5 BB left.
Nevermind that he was 3-bet and his hand sucks until the turn hits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-17-2005, 10:39 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I was a little harsh on you but i'll give my reasoning for raising.

I think with only 2 overs (which could or could not be dominated by AX) you raise here to buy the button and earn yourself a free card on the turn. You are also trying to fold out hands better than yours such as A6 or A2 so if your ace hits, your queen kicker is still good.

By not raising the guy with the gutshot still had odds to draw anyway, he got 25-1 odds on the flop to call one bet, but you also force CO and Button to call 2 cold, giving them 10-1 and 11-1 respectively, still good odds to call, but its better than 25-1; theres also chance you could fold them out.

On the turn your raise was correct, but they still were getting 11-1 to call your bet, so you really didnt do anything to give them bad odds to call.

And on the river you should have thrown in a value bet for the side pot. Either that or raise the turn, after BB goes all in you want to build the side pot as big as possible, this way BB can still win and so can you.


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Old 01-17-2005, 10:45 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I was a little harsh on you but i'll give my reasoning for raising.

I think with only 2 overs (which could or could not be dominated by AX) you raise here to buy the button and earn yourself a free card on the turn. You are also trying to fold out hands better than yours such as A6 or A2 so if your ace hits, your queen kicker is still good.

By not raising the guy with the gutshot still had odds to draw anyway, he got 25-1 odds on the flop to call one bet, but you also force CO and Button to call 2 cold, giving them 10-1 and 11-1 respectively, still good odds to call, but its better than 25-1; theres also chance you could fold them out.

On the turn your raise was correct, but they still were getting 11-1 to call your bet, so you really didnt do anything to give them bad odds to call.

And on the river you should have thrown in a value bet for the side pot. Either that or raise the turn, after BB goes all in you want to build the side pot as big as possible, this way BB can still win and so can you.
well the plan was to call, so both CO and the button call after. pot is about 10BB now, UTG bets again, i raise after, and now gutshots can no longer call profitably getting only 7:1.

of course my plan backfired when CO pumped the flop, tapping everyone for one more bet. so now no matter what i do i can't protect my hand.

the only glaring mistake i did in this hand was failing to build the side pot.
 
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Fnord
Old 01-17-2005, 11:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I was a little harsh on you but i'll give my reasoning for raising.

blah blah blah...
You make a good argument, but I'll make another one for just calling here.

The BB showed strength pre-flop by 3-betting. You probably don't have the best hand here and are likely drawing very thin. He also followed through on the flop.

By raising you open yourself up to a 3-bet.

Pairs will often call anyway, so I don't think you get a lot of equity by cleaning up outs already looking thin. You also discourage pretty good hands from raising behind you (giving you a strong signal to fold if it comes back to you for 2 more sb.)

By raising you may discourage the BB from leading out if you hit your Ace or Queen. Cutting into your implied odds.

Quite often I will raise with overs, but it doesn't look like a good deal here unless the BB is LAgg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 01-18-2005, 12:40 AM #11 (permalink)  
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UTG+1 is loose/passive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP3 with K, A. MP2 posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, Fnord raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 2, 6, 7 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Fnord calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) A (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Fnord bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

River: (9.16 BB) 8 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Fnord bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.16 BB

Results in white below:
UTG+1 has 7s Js (one pair, sevens).
Fnord has Kc Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Fnord wins 11.16 BB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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zenbitz
Old 01-18-2005, 04:40 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Fnord, would you have called the turn if the turn and river were reversed?

You are still getting 7:1 I guess... It's pretty obvious that no matter what he was holding preflop, he spiked a pair on the flop.... could be ugly if he is holding A6!
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