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My first limit hands, ever..

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Pingviini

12-20-2005, 06:48 PM Post subject: My first limit hands, ever..

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

I do not have any reads yet, one of the first hands on the table. I felt that my biggest problems laid preflop, no idea where to raise and where to call, folding went pretty well

AK good for 3-betting in general? field was loose passive at the time. One of my worst hands of the session, fold on turn?
#1
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, A

. UTG+1 posts a blind of $3.
UTG raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3

, 7

, T

(3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Not folding AQ here against these guys, I thought I should isolate, is calling better? again problem with PF, post flop fine I guess..

2#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q

, A

.
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A

, 5

, 9

(3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3

(3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6

(3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

is this standard? I felt I played this one pretty well but on the other hand, I have no idea about this game, yet

3#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J

, J

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6

, A

, 3

(3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) T

(2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

He was raising almost every time here, wanted to make a stand here. Should I raise the flop, might have some FE..turn call ok?

4#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T

, 7

.
6 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9

, 8

, Q

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 8

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 6

(2 players)

SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Here for some reason I did not raise on the flop

check the turn to possibly get 3 bets on river? No real reads, basic semi passive-loose guy.

5#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T

, Q

. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J

, K

, 8

(2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9

(2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2

(2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Feels kinda standard to me, is this?

6#
Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2

, J

, Q

(3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4

(3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) Q

(3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Just call on flop to get possible 3-bets on turn. River check is kinda weak but figured that there wasnt that many hands that I could be that are calling me here..
7#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, A

.
5 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4

, 8

, K

(2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 8

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Big stack was really aggro when folded in position. Is this kinda blind defense normal/good??
8#
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, J

.
6 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5

, K

, 2

(2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 3.75 BB

STATS: 321 hands, vpip 19.63, -0.97BB/100, went to SD 42.25%, won at SD 43.33, PFR 9.35%.
Felt I played tight aggressive position poker, some really stupid plays, not horrible though..

comments!

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outphase

12-20-2005, 07:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

I am by no means a Fnord or Hyper, but here's a quick analysis of the play... which looks pretty good for a LHE newb.

hand 1: raising the flop is ok, but you can't call the turn bet without a maniac read on the opp or at least a pair

hand 2: cold calling is bad, 3bet AQ if you intend on playing it, hand plays itself

hand 3: it looks fine as to not give credit to the donkbet, a raise on the turn would be interesting play though, don't try this play until you know how to manage yourself with the overcard(s)

hand 4: blind steal/defense hand, can't really complain

hand 5: you may want to raise the flop so you can get the free river card, but calling isn't that bad

hand 6: good slowdown on the river, UTG likely had AQ or other raisable Q

hand 7: bet the river, you're still ahead most of the time

hand 8: good blind defense

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

Pingviini

12-20-2005, 07:40 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

Thanks Outphase, sort of what I felt and it is good to get some analysis.

Now a question to you! On hand 7, do you think that when I bet and he calls I will be ahead 50-60% of the time?? That is the question. I am pretty sure I am ahead here at least 70-80% of the time but that hasn't got that much to do with betting..

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

|~|ypermegachi

12-20-2005, 08:06 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

hand 1: AK is easily the most overplayed/misplayed hand by beginning limit players. since you're comin from NL i presume, you'll need to know that you cannot drive your opponents out by betting the pot. with that said, capping preflop multiway with AK is pretty standard.

raising the flop was bad. the flop is fairly coordinated with the obvious flush and possible straight draw. they are guaranteed to call your bet, and all you have is ace high (with no flush redraw i might add). call the flop and see what comes on the turn and go from there.

given what happened instead, you should fold the river.

hand 2:
3betting preflop is not standard with AQo. depending on who's UTG would make it raise/fold. actually i don't think cold calling is so bad either, but since you're so close to the button anyways you might as well buy position with an extra bet. rest of the hand is standard.

hand 3:
got a read? i almost always bet this river. you can also raise the turn and check behind the river (or fold to a turn 3bet)

hand 4:
looks good

hand 5:
usually i'll raise the flop to try for a free turn card

hand 6:
looks fine.

hand 7:
bet the river

hand 8:
well, as long as you have a read to justify your 3bet. although i'm more inclined to call and see what the flop brings instead of investing more money against an aggressive player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outphase

hand 1: raising the flop is ok, but you can't call the turn bet without a maniac read on the opp or at least a pair

you're advising to fold on a blank turn when he's getting 10.5:1 immediate odds? discounting the As and Ks to count as 1 instead of 2 outs still gives us 5 outs.

thenonsequitur

12-20-2005, 09:05 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Location: Location

Posts: 637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingviini

On hand 7, do you think that when I bet and he calls I will be ahead 50-60% of the time?? That is the question. I am pretty sure I am ahead here at least 70-80% of the time but that hasn't got that much to do with betting..

You are almost certainly ahead on the flop and if his hand improved somewhere along the way, it was probably the turn that improved it. But he didn't raise you on the turn so he probably didn't improve. It's possible he just hit a backdoor 4-flush or 4-straight and he's calling for the draw, but that's not particularly likely. I think he's calling the turn with a weaker made hand.

The river was very unlikely to have helped him. The only likely hand to have improved from the river is A8. And often he donks you when he has A8 because people are scared to checkraise the river. And often A8 folds this turn after your flop raise and turn lead (unless it was the A

he held).

So it looks like you are about as frequently ahead on the river as you were on the turn, and he called the turn, so he unless he picked up a draw on the turn that didn't come in he will sometimes call you with the same weaker hand that he called you on the turn with.

If he picked up a hand better than TP somewhere then he may be trying to checkraise. But as stated before that's rare because he would probably have raised the turn if this was the case. If you're really lucky he has KQ and tries to checkraise with his now-counterfeited 2-pair.

But I think he more often than not he has KT, KJ, AK, or AQ, often with a club as one of his hole cards, and calls your river bet. If I had to put him on one hand I would pick KJ with the J

. I think he often folds, but more importantly I think it's more than twice as frequent that he calls with a weaker than he calls/raises with a better hand.

Romulus141

12-20-2005, 09:19 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Oxford, PA

Posts: 118

(Without reading other responses)

Hand #1: Pre-flop 3-bet is fine. I don't like the flop raise. A passive opponent has bet into you, which means he probably has something, and you're raising him with ace-high. I'd call and peel one more off and fold the turn unimproved. The pot is large enough to warrant seeing the turn, I think.

Hand #2: You either want to 3-bet or fold pre-flop (folding isn't necessary here). I try not to cold-call, but it isn't terrible here since your hand is strong. The rest of the hand is standard.

Hand #3: Depending on what I think of the opponent, I may raise the turn. If he's aggressive post-flop, then I'm definitely raising. However, if he's passive, he might have the third three. I've gone to war over a turn bet and gotten burned far more often than I like. Now that I really think about it, you probably want to raise regardless. If you're 3-bet, fold because he has that three most of the time (or he was being cute slowplaying something else nasty). I'm checking through on the river afterwards. If I'm bet into again, I'll probably curse to myself and make the crying call since the pot would be lying 9.75 to 1 (assuming you raise the turn, are called, and are bet into again).

Hand #4: Against a maniac, making a stand is standard. Depending on my opponent, I sometimes like to wait for something stronger that I can 3-bet with. Anyway, you flopped the straight with no flush draw. Yeah, he COULD have K10, but you're probably way ahead. Cap that flop, show him who's boss. Raise the turn too and call down the river if he's not backing down (possible boat, but more likely he is spewing). I don't like waiting for the river to raise, because if I'm 3-bet, that will suck, cause it probably means I lose, even against a maniac.

Hand #5: I usually fold this pre-flop. Granted, the only person in the pot was forced to post a blind, so your attempt to steal the blinds isn't bad. In this situation, I'd probably try it too. Anyway, not raising on the flop isn't terrible. My guess here is that its marginal. Everything else is seems fine.

Hand #6: Standard. It sucks that he probably has the third queen, but the pot is big enough that he's going to have to show it to me.

Hand #7: Bet the river. Other than that, its standard. No, do not slowplay aces at this level. You'll get burned more often than you like. As long as the board is friendly enough, bet and raise. Don't slow down until you're given a reason to slow down.

Hand #8: Seems fine to me. Unlike the previous blind defense hand, this is the kind of hand I like to have when defending. Since you noted your opponent is aggro, you have no reason to believe he has a good hand. By 3-betting, a continuation bet on the flop could get him to fold. However, if you're called/raised, step back and reconsider. He probably has you beat.

euphoricism

12-21-2005, 06:03 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Heres my review - I didn't read the other replies yet because I didn't want any bias. I'll read them now :]

Hand 1) Threebet is ok, it'll be sure to get those pesky blinds out (and you've got some dead money from UTG+1's donkpost.) From there.. the raise on the flop is iffy, when a guy raises preflop, gets threebet, and leads the flop anyway - you gotta worry. The 3bet needs to send "FOLD! FOLD! FOLD!" flashing in your eyes. Fold the turn unimproved.

Hand 2) Isolating is going to be a bit difficult at these stakes and at full ring in general. (at least far more than youre used to at SHNL). I'd consider coldcalling this, and from there I play the same. A threebet is in no way "bad", though. If it knocks out the SB its probably worth it.

Hand 3) I'm tempted to say 'bet duh riva' but you gotta think UTG+2 is betting out at least an ace. Just remember missing bets in limit SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS. And the river is the place 90% of players seem to miss them (myself included.) If he had a strong hand, he would have bet out on the river - but since we only have second pair, we can put him on something like A8 fairly easily. The spade card brings another challenge, so I think the river check is alright.

Hand 4) If he's being over-aggro, I play it about the same. T7o is probably not the hand I do it with, though. Yes, raise the flop (you want money in the pot and if he just calls you get a free card). Turn call is ok (5-, youve got the odds, not to mention implied odds if you hit. River goot.

Hand 5) I'm not sure I'd play this one. QTo is just so easily dominated, and pretty much anyone who calls you by definition has to have you dominated. I play postflop the same. Call the flop (because you don't want him to check/call the turn) and raise the turn when you hit.

Hand 6) Yea, standard. Shitty river card, get used to it, you'll see it far more often than youre used to in NL ;]

Hand 7) He's got a weak K! Bet the river!

Hand 8) Gorgeous.

Well played Ping. Quite impressive for a LHE newbie.

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not2smart

12-21-2005, 12:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: I belong to the night... and to the hidden corners of every room in the house

Posts: 32

I only read about hand #1.

Pre-Flop: In answer to your question, YES! AK is a definate 3-bet hand. Good play.

Flop: The flop completely missed you. The board is scary. The guy who open raised UTG pre-flop is now betting out at you. I would call the bet, gettin 11.5 to 1, but if no A or K on turn, Im done with the hand.

That line saves you 1 small bet and 2 big bets. Again.. perhaps it is too weak-tight??

Ninjas aren't just great warriors.. they are great people too!

koolmoe

12-21-2005, 03:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Hand 1: Three bet preflop good. Flop raise bad (trying for a free card?)

Hand 2: Unless your read is that UTG raises only AA-QQ, AK and AQ, you should three bet to prevent giving the BB nice odds to call a wide range of hands. If you decide not to three bet, fold. With a hand like AQs, you can cold call and invite more hands to the party, but I would still three bet. The rest is standard.

Hand 3: Turn/river action looks like a weak A hoping for a chop. That may be giving Villain too much credit. I'm just hoping for a relatively cheap showdown, so I play it the same.

Hand 4: I mix up calling/raising the flop about 50/50. Not bad.

Hand 5: Standard

Hand 6: Standard

Hand 7: Bet the river. The 8 was a pretty safe card for you.

Hand 8: Standard

Welcome to the dark side.

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