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Gatlin Dan

12-16-2004, 02:17 PM Post subject: My first hand history post...

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

This is also my first attempt using bisonbison's converter...Please forgive me and also give feedback on how I screwed up not only the hand but the use of the converter. Thanks.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, T

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks. (I entertained the idea of PFRing but decided against it. The table was very loose and a raise would not likely have gotten anyone else to fold.)

Flop: (6 SB) 2

, 7

, 9

(6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4

(6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 5

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB
I bet out each round taking the initiative. The absence of overcards and the lack of play back at me further helped me to decide to bet out.

Results in white below:
SB has 9s 4c (two pair, nines and fours).
Hero has Kc Tc (high card, king).
UTG+1 has Qs 7c (one pair, sevens).
MP3 has 3d Ac (straight, five high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 18 BB.

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mike4066

12-16-2004, 03:13 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Next hand try not to post the hand results until after people have commented, you'll get a less bias feedback.

You can't bluff into 3+ opponents and expect them to all fold often enough to make it profitable.

On the flop your going to need 2 running cards to win, all the while doging diamonds. I wo'nt say much about the flop play because on a passive talbe with alot of people playing any too cards.....

But the Turn is hand should have endeded.
Your bet on the turn serves almost no purpose other than to feed someone else.

The river was a bet you shouldn't have made and a raise you should NEVER call. I do'nt think you could be right 1:14 times, to be profitable with this call, heck i odn't htink you can be right 1:50 times.

Let me explain the river just a bit..
Think about all the SINGLE cards that can beat your hand on the river.
ANY 24579A Just those cards alone account for almost 1/2 of the unseen cards in the deck. Then you have small pocket pairs to contend with.

If you feel you made a mistake in a hand don't try to compensate for it in the same hand. Just fold and be done with it. This hand Cost you 3bb's when it shouldn't have. If this is the only time you make this mistake then good for you, but don't rely so heavily on your "over cards".

lolzzz_321

12-16-2004, 03:17 PM

#3 (permalink)

NO YOU

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: My ice is polarized

Posts: 2,797

What do you want us to critique? I mean King High usually doesn't take down many 4 way pots. Well I play NL so I guess I am not qualified, but 4 way it makes sense for someone to have at least one of those cards. And you calle d a raise without a pair or a flushdraw!?!?!?!?!? You had the worst hand out of all of them, I am perplexed. I mean way to be agressive, but I don't usually call a raise on the river with King high.

EDIT: I don't ever call a raise on the river with just a high card

gutshot

12-16-2004, 03:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2004

Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is

Posts: 608

I usually check the river when I get into one of these situations. I still don't like betting with just K high when I've had 2 other monkies coming along for the ride the entire way. You are out of position and cost yourself two more bets on the river instead of only one, or none. Also, a river bet isn't going to get any of these guys to fold now. Maybe if you checkraised the turn I can see them laying down here.

I check this river and do one of two things. If UTG+1 decides to lead out, MP3 is still going to raise him and I can probably fold here with just K high. Pot is biggish, so that might not be correct. If UTG+1 checks behind, I only have to call one bet to look up MP3 instead of two now. Sure checking smells weak, but you have a weak hand here.

One more thing, omitting results from the initial post is a good idea to get better discussion and feedback as nobody's comments are jaded by the outcome.

-jay

"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton

|~|ypermegachi

12-16-2004, 05:39 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

fold on the flop.
2 overcards vs 5 other players on a flush cooridnated and a moderately straight coordinated is just asking for trouble.

p.s., while the decision between raising preflop with KTs is close, if you had a suited ace, even A2s, raise it, with 1 small bet investment you can juice up the pot a lot for when you hit the flush.

Fnord

12-17-2004, 06:38 AM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Check the flop, maybe a loose call there. On the turn your hand is pretty hopeless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Gatlin Dan

12-17-2004, 09:38 AM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

thanks for all the feed back. I didn't really need reinforcement to know I jacked it up pretty bad. Thanks also for the critique on how to post it better next time. Thanks for helping out the newb. Next time, I'll have something a little more critique worthy...

ChezJ

12-17-2004, 08:06 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Washington, D.C.

Posts: 1,456

ChezJ is an unknown quantity at this point

gatlin,

let me try to make a constructive observation. you mentioned that you did not RPF because you didn't think anyone would fold. later you raised, a lot, with no hand in the hopes of folding people down.

until recently, i also thought the main purpose of a raise was to get people out of the pot. this is not really the case. many raises are for value, and you want people to call them not fold.

when raising pre-flop, you are exploiting the statistical edge that you have over everyone else. assuming everyone else has unsuited garbage, your KTs have a better than average chance of drawing the best hand. so if you choose to RPF, you WANT people to call. keeping them in grows the pot, helping you draw with correct pot odds and paying you off when you hit.

now, you may not win that particular pot, but that doesn't mean the move was wrong. if you apply this behavior consistently every time you have a good pre-flop hand and everyone else has crap, then over the long run you will scoop a few enormous pots that make up for all the ones you lost.

it's a difficult concept to grasp at first... at least it was for me. but math is math, and can't be denied.

ChezJ

Gatlin Dan

12-18-2004, 10:03 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

Chez,
Thanks for the input. I did a little revisiting of Sklanksky's SSHE last night. I specifically read parts of the book dealling with raising for value and check-raising. There was some good things that I had overlooked or not applied to my recent playing that I see now that I should. I've recently been too narrow minded thinking about the hand at hand only, and neglecting to remember that one's poker career is one long session. After re-reading that material and further study of this hand, I think I should probably have RPF knowing that so many people were going to be in the pot. I should have played this hand a lot less aggressively, and folded once the bet size doubled, if not before. God, I messed it up bad. If a poker career is like a child's educational process, I'm only in second grade;

I still have a lot to learn.

Thanks FTR for the wide perspective and attention you give the new student.

ChezJ

12-19-2004, 08:08 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Washington, D.C.

Posts: 1,456

Quote:

If a poker career is like a child's educational process, I'm only in second grade

Well, I'm only in third grade myself, but I'm glad I could help a little.

ChezJ

Gatlin Dan

12-19-2004, 08:13 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

Quote:

If a poker career is like a child's educational process, I'm only in second grade

Well, I'm only in third grade myself, but I'm glad I could help a little.

ChezJ

At least you learn multiplication in third grade; no wonder I have trouble figuring odds...

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