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pokerlearner
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09-22-2005, 06:31 AM
Post subject: My biggest pot online/party...EVER (Low content)
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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I know that the J-10 is not that good call after the raise but table is loose and lot of people in so stayed in and on the flop enough odds for gutshot right. 
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J , T .
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop: (16.18 SB) 5, K , 9 (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds.
Turn: (10.59 BB) Q (6 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.
River: (22.59 BB) 4 (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.
Final Pot: 34.59 BB
Results in white below:
BB has Qh Ks (two pair, kings and queens).
MP1 has 4s 4h (three of a kind, fours).
Hero has Js Th (straight, king high).
Button has Qd Qs (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 34.59 BB.
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thenonsequitur
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09-22-2005, 06:40 AM
Post subject: Re: My biggest pot online/party...EVER (Low content)
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
I know that the J-10 is not that good call after the raise but table is loose and lot of people in so stayed in and on the flop enough odds for gutshot right. :)
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You were already in for one bet when it was raised, no way you are laying down JT for one more bet preflop--good call. Definitely good odds for a flop call too. Nice hand.
BB overplayed his hand and I'm not sure what Button was doing (slowplaying? playing timidly? calling expecting to lose? I have no idea).
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I say fold when the action gets to you. You really want to be on the button here. Or at least the cut-off. You're playing this hand almost purely for the straight draw, so you want the position advantage to draw for cheap and get the most in when you have the best hand.
Here the CO folded so you effectively got the cut-off position, but the call was thin. After the raise you're too deep in to fold though obviously since the pot odds just got better than they were when you made the original call.
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Trikflow77
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09-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Post subject: Re: My biggest pot online/party...EVER (Low content)
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
I know that the J-10 is not that good call after the raise but table is loose and lot of people in so stayed in and on the flop enough odds for gutshot right. |
You were already in for one bet when it was raised, no way you are laying down JT for one more bet preflop--good call. Definitely good odds for a flop call too. |
captain obvious wins the pot............gg
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Good, don't see how it could be played any different at this level.
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thenonsequitur
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09-22-2005, 02:44 PM
Post subject: Re: My biggest pot online/party...EVER (Low content)
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by trikflow77
captain obvious wins the pot............gg
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??
He seemed to be seriously considering folding JT for one more bet. It didn't look like sarcasm to me. He said he thought the call after the raise was not very good, when that's not true. I don't see how my post was not appropriately replying to his?
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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lol @ button with 44
he hit his 4 on the river and probably thought, "yes!"
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
lol @ button with 44
he hit his 4 on the river and probably thought, "yes!"
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hand history is messed up
it says MP1
and MP1 is no where to be found after limping
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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the hand history could be messed up but from what I remember, someone went all in on the hand preflop. could be MP1.
I usually avoid playing J-10 offsuit (its not that good on my pokertracker either for 0.5-1 level) but the table was really loose and passive preflop and there were hardly any raises but a lot of people called preflop and made the call expecting some other people calling behind me. when the raise came wasnt very happy but knew most of them would call so called too.
from the flop it was all easy decisions.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I say fold when the action gets to you. You really want to be on the button here. Or at least the cut-off. You're playing this hand almost purely for the straight draw, so you want the position advantage to draw for cheap and get the most in when you have the best hand.
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Other than the crap about only playing for straight value, I agree. You want to be CO/BN to limp in weak offsuit broadways because if it's raised, you're clearly getting the worst of it. I'm more than happy to jam boards like JT4, JJ5, TT7.
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floppydonker
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 26
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I must be a tightass, cuz I probably would have folded J10o with three limpers to begin with in that position. And I do play at that level. Am I too tight? If it was suited, i would definitely call or raise, but offsuit I think I would normally fold there. Am I playing too tight?
limpflop
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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this is an auto-limp for me. i'll cold call JTo with the same amount of ppl before me.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
this is an auto-limp for me. i'll cold call JTo with the same amount of ppl before me.
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Yuck
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Thread Hi-Jack...
Stupid JTo, should have dumped this turkey on the flop...
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Fnord is SB with J, T.
6 folds, Button calls, Fnord completes, BB checks.
Flop: (3 SB) 9, 3, Q (3 players)
Fnord checks, BB bets, Button raises, Fnord calls, BB calls.
Turn: (4.50 BB) J (3 players)
Fnord checks, BB checks, Button bets, Fnord calls, BB folds.
River: (6.50 BB) Q (2 players)
Fnord checks, Button bets, Fnord calls.
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
this is an auto-limp for me. i'll cold call JTo with the same amount of ppl before me.
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While in theory if the table is loose enough, people will cold-call after you as much as they would have called a single bet, so you will probably get the same pot odds to see the flop after a raise as without a raise, there are some problems with this.
1. The table is often not that loose. You will often lose a limper that isn't willing to cold-call even with many cold callers already acting.
2. If someone after you 3-bets, it will sometimes get capped and you end up in a capped pot with JTo. This hurts my head just thinking about it.
3.. You can no longer expect to win with as many flops as you hit. Even your striaghts are pretty vulnerable to a full house or better when the pair boards, or to a higher straight when you don't have the nut straight. Your trips are vulnerable to a full house. Your two pair is also more vulnerable to lose against sets or higher two pairs.
4. The pot is now big enogh that you will often be forced to make some -EV calls to avoid even bigger -EV folds.
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stewartkev
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99
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Sorry, this is my first post in a good while (been travelling) and I hate to be pedantic but.....JT CANNOT make a straight that isn't the nut straight.
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stewartkev
JT CANNOT make a straight that isn't the nut straight
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My first post in a while too. This statement is incorrect. DYSW? 
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by A'aag
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stewartkev
JT CANNOT make a straight that isn't the nut straight
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My first post in a while too. This statement is incorrect. DYSW? |
It is correct if you use both cards.
Naturally it might be counterfeited by any number of hands when the board holds a J or T.
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Poker is freedom
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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You see why. Just being a dick. 
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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[quote="thenonsequitur"]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
this is an auto-limp for me. i'll cold call JTo with the same amount of ppl before me.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
1. The table is often not that loose. You will often lose a limper that isn't willing to cold-call even with many cold callers already acting.
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doesn't matter much. i'll have position now. if i don't have at least 3 ppl already in the pot i'm folding.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
2. If someone after you 3-bets, it will sometimes get capped and you end up in a capped pot with JTo. This hurts my head just thinking about it.
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that's about the worse thing that can happen, and very rarely will there be enough good hands out there to be 5 way capped preflop.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
3.. You can no longer expect to win with as many flops as you hit. Even your striaghts are pretty vulnerable to a full house or better when the pair boards, or to a higher straight when you don't have the nut straight. Your trips are vulnerable to a full house. Your two pair is also more vulnerable to lose against sets or higher two pairs.
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what hand isn't vulnerable?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
4. The pot is now big enogh that you will often be forced to make some -EV calls to avoid even bigger -EV folds.
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wanna elaborate a bit more? how is this different than having a pair of aces UI on the river when you get check raised?
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stewartkev
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99
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Was drunk last night and being a bit of a dick too!
Sorry but having a "blonde moment" through my hangover. If the J or T is counterfeited then don't you still have a nut straight, but the pot can be split some ways? I'm failing to see why.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I say fold when the action gets to you. You really want to be on the button here. Or at least the cut-off. You're playing this hand almost purely for the straight draw, so you want the position advantage to draw for cheap and get the most in when you have the best hand.
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Other than the crap about only playing for straight value, I agree. You want to be CO/BN to limp in weak offsuit broadways because if it's raised, you're clearly getting the worst of it. I'm more than happy to jam boards like JT4, JJ5, TT7. |
By playing only for the straight value I meant that that's the ADDITIONAL value for the hand. As in, full house, quads, trips, two pair happen to 720 as well. Hell, a pair of sevens can take it down sometimes. JT is a little better because of kicker and better pairs, but only marginally so. In fact, K8 has better potential for getting a strong non-straight hand. That's because when you get trip eights, your kicker is better. When you get a king, you are more likely to have top pair, even though you have a bad kicker, that's still stronger than middle pair with middle kicker. It also wins unimproved like once in a few hundred hands. I really don't care if it's actually statistically weaker, but I'm trying to make a point here.
But the straight potential is what gives JT enough value to be played on the button in this loose game. K2 is a muck. In fact, JT is not much weaker than QJ because the straight possibilities almost compensate for the high card weakness in loose games.
Sorry I didn't express myself better. Of course I'm happy with trips or two pair as well. TPMK is fine too. That's the majority of value in any hand, I'm just saying you need some extra to justify playing it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
But the straight potential is what gives JT enough value to be played on the button in this loose game. K2 is a muck. In fact, JT is not much weaker than QJ because the straight possibilities almost compensate for the high card weakness in loose games.
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Don't uder-estimate high card power. 72 will hit 2 pair or trips and lose more often than JTo.
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stewartkev
Was drunk last night and being a bit of a dick too!
Sorry but having a "blonde moment" through my hangover. If the J or T is counterfeited then don't you still have a nut straight, but the pot can be split some ways? I'm failing to see why. |
How about this board: 8927J
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