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The most difficult hand

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Humphrind

12-02-2004, 06:43 PM Post subject: The most difficult hand

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I hate the first hand at the table. When you have no reads on anyone. I'm getting much, much better. But I wanted to bring this hand up because you know as much about these players as I do.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Humphrind is MP3 with Q

, Q

. Humphrind posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Humphrind (poster) 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG caps, MP1 calls, Humphrind calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6

, 2

, K

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 folds, Humphrind calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 2

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Humphrind folds, BB calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 5

(2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

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Fnord

12-02-2004, 06:50 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Raise the flop. I don't see any value in calling the flop and folding the turn unimproved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lonnie

12-02-2004, 06:52 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Here is a play I run every now and then in that situation just to mix it up.

Raise the flop, fold to the 3 bet.

If he bets the turn, fold. If he checks, check.

If he then checks the river, bet.

I like wacky lines sometimes to throw my opps off. This particular play doesn't cost much if it fails and can do a lot for your image when you feel you are getting pushed around.

Fnord

12-02-2004, 06:57 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie

Raise the flop, fold to the 3 bet.

At this point I would call and fold the turn unimproved. With a read I might call down on a non-club turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie

If he bets the turn, fold. If he checks, check.

If he then checks the river, bet.

This is best against tricky players that will call the flop raise and c/r the turn. More often you should be betting the turn and checking behind on the river.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lonnie

12-02-2004, 07:05 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Quote:

At this point I would call and fold the turn unimproved. With a read I might call down...

Ok, you don't improve on the turn. He checks...now what? Bet? If it turns out to be a C/R on the turn, then what?

Quote:

This is best against tricky players that will call the flop raise and c/r the turn.

True. The line I suggested is good if you WANT to see what this unknown player is raising with and how he plays that hand with that flop. I've been experimenting with mixing my play up in these situations and this is just one of many different lines you can take. If all goes well, you can showdown your underpair for only 2 BB instead of the 2.5 BB if you call down all the way.

Fnord

12-02-2004, 07:23 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie

Ok, you don't improve on the turn. He checks...now what? Bet? If it turns out to be a C/R on the turn, then what?

Check behind on the turn. Call the river, bet if checked to.

Quote:

Mostly the flop raise is to protect your hand against the other 2 players. Heads-up I'd call and bet if checked to.

Full table for most players I'm less interested in information than I am at a 6 max table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

fishstick

12-02-2004, 09:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

looking at humpty's hand, this is an area where i get into constant trouble (with 2nd best, but a good pair).

preflop - same as humpty

flop - i reraise UTG for the reasons already stated

my trouble spot ---> let's say UTG just calls. now, my information is spotty. am i ahead in the hand? or is UTG just calling me down with K3 off?

turn - if UTG just checks, same questions as above. do i have the better hand, or is he just feeling timid with his K3 off? if he bets (after just calling my flop reraise), do i fold? reraise?

playing a hand like this with you guys, i feel like i know what to do. playing the average low stakes limit player that would call down to the river with K3 off - ???.

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Fnord

12-02-2004, 11:47 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

playing a hand like this with you guys, i feel like i know what to do. playing the average low stakes limit player that would call down to the river with K3 off - ???.

Good for him. If they're not raising they're often missing bets. You don't even have to win this one 50% of the time to be profitable here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Humphrind

12-03-2004, 12:49 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

It may have been weak to call the flop, but I put him on AK, KK, AA (AK most likely) from his pre-flop and flop action. Any of these hands beats me. If I didn't want to pay a 3-bet to have a chance to out-draw him, I would need to call the flop, not raise.

Pot: $13.25 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ 6s 2c Kc 2d 5s ]
Lucky Loose didn't bet (folded)
VegasNick43 didn't bet (folded)
jimmyc54 lost $0.25 (folded)
mitipiti lost $4.50 [ 6c 9s ] (two pair, sixes and twos)
DChowda bet $4.50, collected $13.25, net +$8.75 (showed hand) [ Ah Ks ] (two pair, kings and twos)
Anglo-Saxon didn't bet (folded)
kapto lost $2 (folded)
krompen didn't bet (folded)
Humphrind lost $2.50 (folded) [ Qh Qd ] (two pair, queens and twos)

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

lonnie

12-03-2004, 01:06 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Quote:

If I didn't want to pay a 3-bet to have a chance to out-draw him, I would need to call the flop, not raise.

Humph - a lot of times if you raise the flop, you will get checked to on the turn. You have the option to check through. You pay 1 extra SB and get to find out if he really has a hand, and may get to see the river card for free.

2 shots at outdrawing him for half of a BB if the play works..

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