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Phyl
Old 05-24-2005, 08:06 PM     Post subject: More 5/10 hands #1 (permalink)  
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More hands that I think I may have misplayed, hope no one minds me posting so many hands in such a short amount of time.

3 more hands from 5/10 that I played today:

Hand 1:

CO is 17/8.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) K, K, J (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 9 (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (8.20 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

Hand 2:

No real read on opponent, based on a small sample his VPIP is probably <20 for what it's worth.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J.
5 folds, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7, T, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Hand 3:

No reads, this is his first hand at the table.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 6.
7 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 4, 4, Q (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 9 (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB
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LeFou
Old 05-24-2005, 08:26 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: perfect going-for-overcalls, IMO.
Hand 2: Weird one. On first reading, I say raise or fold the river. Your checks tells opp that his little pp (or AK/AQ?) is good. Convince him otherwise with a raise or let go.
But I take another look and think ... what pp? <7 makes PFR really unusual... 8s would raise you on the flop, and sets or >T would raise you all over the place.
Still, a guy calling like that has got something. And you don't.
Hand 3: man, I hate it when they don't tell you anything. I give up my bluff on the turn here.
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LeFou
Old 05-24-2005, 08:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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btw post all the histories you want. if i look at enough of your hands, i'll be ready for 5/10 someday.
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Fnord
Old 05-24-2005, 09:16 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: CO's check on the flop concerns me, as it's often something like AK/KK/JJ. Folding the turn isn't a bad play. Fail that, I'd rather raise and fold to a 3-bet. There still are lots of re-draws you need to protect your hand against and you're drawing dead against Kx anyway.

Hand 2: Fold pre-flop. I don't think you're ever good on that river.

Hand 3: Standard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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TylerK
Old 05-24-2005, 09:23 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 plays a lot differently if you bet the flop. I'd raise the turn, if you're not 2nd or 3rd best now, there are a lot of ways you can be when the river card falls.

Hand 2 I probably check/fold the turn, but if you're going to call the river you might as well bet and fold to a raise.

Hand 3 same thing, if you're going to the river you might as well take a bet/fold line on the river.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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Fnord
Old 05-24-2005, 09:27 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 1 plays a lot differently if you bet the flop. I'd raise the turn, if you're not 2nd or 3rd best now, there are a lot of ways you can be when the river card falls.
Why would you bet into the 3-bet? That line just screams Jx against most opponents as I would expect Kx to go for a c/r at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 3 same thing, if you're going to the river you might as well take a bet/fold line on the river.
How is bet/fold a better line here than check/call or check/fold?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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TylerK
Old 05-24-2005, 09:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 1 plays a lot differently if you bet the flop. I'd raise the turn, if you're not 2nd or 3rd best now, there are a lot of ways you can be when the river card falls.
Why would you bet into the 3-bet? That line just screams Jx against most opponents as I would expect Kx to go for a c/r at some point.
Against CO this is more than likely a "way ahead/way behind" situation, leaning toward way behind. Forcing him to react on the flop makes decisions for the rest of the hand easier. Consider that there are flush and straight draws out there, a flop bet may convince CO to raise which may have the benefit of folding UTG. The way this hand was played, it's hard to know how to react when UTG comes alive on the turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 3 same thing, if you're going to the river you might as well take a bet/fold line on the river.
How is bet/fold a better line here than check/call or check/fold?[/quote]

Check/fold isn't a bad line, but if we're going to call a bet I'd prefer to give villian a chance to incorrectly fold a better hand. He's played the hand fairly passively. I think, at least, check/call is the worst option here. What reasonable hand are we ahead of? Will villain bluff the river with king high?
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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LeFou
Old 05-24-2005, 09:42 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 3 same thing, if you're going to the river you might as well take a bet/fold line on the river.
How is bet/fold a better line here than check/call or check/fold?
opp may be defending with a weak ace that beats Phyl?

i.e. wouldn't call but would bet. just a thought.
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Room
Old 05-25-2005, 02:40 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
How is bet/fold a better line here than check/call or check/fold?
I agree - We've gotten to the river, lets showdown for cheap and not get bluffed off the best hand. Ax that beats us will likely check behind but not call a bet. A better hand will call our bet or raise. Check/call or check/fold.
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Fnord
Old 05-25-2005, 02:43 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Room
Ax that beats us will likely check behind but not call a bet.
More importantly, a pair will often check behind. I think this is the biggest advantage to check/calling vs a weak player, you often save a bet when behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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lonnie
Old 05-25-2005, 07:29 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Phyl, what kind of read do you have on UTG+1 in hand 1? Has he been caught showing down junk, or raising marginal hands out of position?

I like your line, especially since CO is showing zero aggression. You are almost surely ahead of the CO. You have no idea where you are at with UTG+1, but I don't think you care either. You're bringing this to a cheap showdown.

Hands 2 and 3 are tough. I don't know how often you are good on the river. I know at 2/4 and 3/6, when you check the river against a HU opp, it is an autobet for a lot of them. Good time to know your opponent.
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Phyl
Old 05-25-2005, 11:20 PM #12 (permalink)  
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In hand 1 I don't like a flop bet for information because I don't think it provides much, I think CO might raise a worse hand here. I like checking but should I check/call or check/raise?

On the turn there are two flush draws but it's only three handed and there aren't really many cards I'm scared of. Hence I wasn't worried about possibly letting someone draw cheap, plus the pot is pretty small. I called the turn because I wanted to get to showdown cheap and I could fold for only one bet if CO was getting frisky with something big.

I agree that I messed up hand 2, I think I prefer check/folding the river.

Quote:
Hand 2: Fold pre-flop.
I thought preflop was close but a fold is probably best. Raise against a known TAG right?

I prefer a check/call on the river in hand 3 mostly because he might check behind a better hand he would have called a bet with. But also because there aren't that many worse hands he will fold here. He'll also bluff this river with a worse hand fairly often I think.
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Fnord
Old 05-25-2005, 11:26 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyl
I agree that I messed up hand 2, I think I prefer check/folding the river.

Quote:
Hand 2: Fold pre-flop.
I thought preflop was close but a fold is probably best. Raise against a known TAG right?
Didn't notice he came from the Hi-Jack (just saw MPX and didn't look much closer), hmmm it really depends on how aggro he is. There are a lot of 3/6 players I lay this down for without a second thought. I agree that calling would be pretty bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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