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Chopper

12-10-2008, 04:44 PM Post subject: for the monkey...long post

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

here are several very entertaining hands, for me. i was donking around at 2/4c full ring and came across a couple hands. i am no pro, but i want to show a couple things. and, i want criticism from the rest if what i say is completely off base...

i will post the session and post comments by hand number. click on the link in a separate window so you have them side-by-side.

http://weaktight.com/s8819

you can see their "stats" at the top. i am 23/19/1.7 on this table. i am pfsbulldawg. in case you dont know vpip = putting money in the pot voluntarily (not from a blind), pfr = raises pre flop, AF = Aggression Factor (this is a ratio of how often a player will bet/raise vs call. i bet/raise almost twice as often as i call at a 1.7) use the top to see the "stats" of a player and to understand why i may play passively or aggressively against one or the other. now, to the important hands (skim down below the graph and those are my hole cards for each hand i was dealt)...

this sucks...they arent in the order that i played them. oh well....

hand 1) Q8s in the BB. (just click on my cards to open the HH) first, look at all the cold calling of the raise!! by the time it gets to me, i am receiving 11:1 odds and UTG wont fold for one more, so i consider this 12:1. any two cards play here, but we are looking for 2pr+ to continue. but, i will also play something suited AND connected for odds almost this good and play the draws through, too. Q8s is connected and i am suited, so i will play for 2pr on the flop, flush draws, and straight draws. i will always take into account my odds, but in a pot this big, i will be getting them with almost every favorable flop...until at least the turn.

not a good flop, so i plan to c/f to any bet. but, it checks through? wow, these guys are passive.

turn gives off a flush draw w/ the Ac already up, so i am drawing to the 2nd nut flush. it also gives off a gutshot straight. now, we are talking. look at the pot. at 7:1, before any betting, i am probably calling a bet. hell, if a couple call first, i can call a raise! i likely have 11 outs (2 straight and 9 flush), however, my J for a straight is tricky because its not to the nuts. but, at this level, i wont take that into consideration often because people play so much worse and take it too far in spite of aggression. 11 X 2 is 22%, or about 4:1. there are 7 freakin players in the pot. my PHYSICAL odds are 7:1 and the odds of me hitting MY hand are about 4:1. i have a better chance to win than several players here and i have decent relative position, so i RAISE FOR VALUE. the more money going in, the better for me in the long run. (this is rather rare to be able to do on the turn, but you have to notice it, imo...my raise is profitable in the long run even though i clearly dont have the best hand right now) my relative position means that if i raise, i am not forcing many players to call two bets cold...therefore, they will likely ALL call my raise. in other words, i will not likely fold anyone off and cut down on my PHYSICAL odds.

i whiff the river, so i check and fold. Qhi isnt going to win this hand...lol. but, i think it's important to see WHY i raised when i did with complete crap. if you look to the right on the weak/tight session post, you will see that i lost $.12 on the hand (3bb). but, if i hit, i likely make 20+. a chance i will take, especially for getting in the pot for only 1bb preflop.

hand 22) next hand i pick up da bullets. i am licking my chops now. but, i make what turns out to be a colossal mistake. here's what i was thinking (and why bouncing between limits can be bad).

preflop, i 3bet and another with position on me caps. great for me.

flop gives off a nice, dry board w/ a couple paint cards. again, great. but, i get greedy. instead of c/r'ing, like i should have (we knew the pf capper would bet here and it would force the others to call 2 cold when i raise), i decide to wait for the turn since calling 2 cold in a pot this big doesnt really cut down any drawing odds to draw, except to maybe a gutshot. but, its close and 2/4c players dont probably realize this anyway. i decide to wait for the turn bets to double and pop him then.

turn pairs the board. meh, not terrible, but not great anymore, either. but, all of a sudden, the quiet guy takes the lead!! alarm bells go off that he has the J and isnt afraid of a K folding. so, now i am cautious. i wanted to fold here. i looked at the pot, and mistakenly thought it was smaller than it was (a $.50 pot looks microscopic, to me. its not a bb at .50/1 where i spend most of my time). but, whatever, my mistake. i should have called down getting over 10:1 from here on out. (i dont make a habit of folding much in 10bb+ pots. i dont mean strong hands, i mean...i dont fold hardly anything in pots that big unless i am facing mega aggression)

i fold on the river (again, COLOSSAL mistake) because i am convinced the lead bettor has the J and the caller has either a J or a K. and, i find that my hand reading down here needs a serious overhaul. i would have won the damned pot. this mistake is SO HUGE i cannot classify it into words.

proof that you should be very sticky in big pots down here. you just dont know what these guys are doing. i had decent winning chances, and folded...arrrrgh.

hand 6) another BB hand. this one is probably close between checking pf and raising. i felt like raising because worse will call down here and players chase overcards and hitting a set is a license to get paid off.

the set with an A and flush draw on board is a dreamy flop. i hate slowplaying sets on boards like this, too. i lead and hope for a raise so i can 3bet this flop.

now, here is a "player read." not one to hang the hat on, but a "read" just the same in that it alters how i play the hand going forward. look at my villain's AF in that session tab where it gives his stats. he's a 0.8! that tells me he is passive. so, it tells me he likes to chase draws and doesnt fold hands like TPNK (top pair no kicker) or mid pp's with a single overcard. he prefers to call along and snap bluffs. when he raises me on the turn, i KNOW the J helped him. but, did it complete a str8? give his JJ a set? is it AJ? or worse, like JT? he isnt the type that semibluffs the turn w/ a flush draw only. i 3bet because i am likely ahead and i want to get a better idea if he hit something huge. he will probably cap straights and sets. besides, if i am against a straight, i have ten outs to the boat/quads.

hand 25) here is another "stat read" hand. i 3bet AK because GB... plays 90% of his hands and has an AF of 0.8. he never folds and plays every hand. a true fish.

i hit TPTK on a dry flop. i know GB... likes his hand (he raised pre). he also liked that A. so, i likely have him, unless he has AJ/A8. since there are no "realistic" draws out, i wait for the turn here and take my chances. and, just keep the initiative the rest of the way against this calling station. i had no idea he could do this with 66 after the J paired!! but, these are the types of players we need to be milking for max profit every chance we get.

hand 23) this is a standard "way ahead/way behind" hand, to me. these 2/4c players drag any A and they like to slowplay monsters. i could be ahead, i could be behind. i have 2 outs to improve, and if i get aggressive, i will drive off any non-A hand because they will think i have the A. so, i just call down and hope someone gets stupid with 2nd pair or worse.

JB...is another kind of fish. he also plays 90+% of his hands, but his AF is 3.5. he's VERY aggressive. no one hits that many hands, so he is totally full of shit a lot. easy enough to call down and let him spew it all off. and, some other guy that shouldnt have called even a flop bet did so with QT. he coolered himself on the turn. i still had no idea where i was in this hand, and expected to lose most times. but, KK takes out all but an A for the most part. whatever, we got out clean on this one.

hand 19) now, look WHO i am up against here. the aggro 90%er and the passive 90%er. i slaughter any range they will play with any hand i consider remotely playable. but, i pick up a decent hand in AJ. i raise it pf because it is not really dominated by THEIR range and i can sell the rest of the table that i have a hand i like. most players wont call two cold if they are paying any attention. and, AJ has good equity at a 2/4c table, imo, anyway. you just have to control the pot if the wrong players enter it with you. here, i only have the loosest of the loose. i am playing it like AK.

wow. what a flop! most players would slowplay here. nah. i want money IN the pot, not in my stack. these guys have demonstrated that they will call with mid pairs, any A, flush draws, gutshots, and worse. so, i need to be firing and hope they catch. MAKE IT RIGHT FOR THEM TO CALL HERE....THEY STILL CANT WIN. if they fold the flop, they would have folded to any turn card, too. this is a huge mistake most smaller stakes, beginning players make. they watch the WPT on tv and see some guy slowplay a flopped set, flush, or boat, and think thats the standard line. against tighter players, yes. but, against a couple players chasing anything to the river, NO NO NO. just keep jamming the pot, hope they think you are full of crap. hope they catch their flush and raise you back. hope they have JX and catch their underboat and screw themselves. just cap all streets here, if possible. if they have the nuts, they have the nuts. it happens. but, more times than not, they will pay you off nicely and still not learn from it.

hope those help a bit.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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flopmonkey

12-10-2008, 08:41 PM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 85

Hey thanks Chopper. It really helps alot to go thru games and see the reasons for each move and how your actually supposed think. Ill read this one a few times over.

Also that weaktight.com looks like a handy site, Ill bookmark it.

Chopper

12-10-2008, 08:47 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

its free and converts a lot of stuff, too. that one and our own are the two best out there, imo.

glad you appreciate that stuff. it takes awhile to read, and i like doing it. so, i may do another soon, too.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

flopmonkey

12-10-2008, 09:50 PM

#4 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 85

Cool! Keep them coming!

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for the monkey...long post

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