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Middle set vs double check raise

  
 
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mdwav
Old 07-23-2005, 07:21 AM     Post subject: Middle set vs double check raise #1 (permalink)  
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Another B&M hand. I just transferred to this table a few hands ago, so reads are based mainly on previous sessions.
Reads:
LP1 - Taggy player, not much of a read.
MP1 - very weak player that I played a lot of sessions against. Chases a lot with any piece of the board, counts outs but (seemingly) has no idea of pot odds.
Mp2 - Fairly Laggy, likes to raise on flop for free cards, often chases without odds, bluffs a lot. Always raising my blinds.
SB - fairly weak, somewhat of a calling station (basic B&M player).
BB - takes too many flops, does not know how to play the board, basically overplays big pairs and nut flush draws, but underplays (?) small sets.

Pre-flop:
Hero has 88 in late position. 3 players (MP1, MP2 and an early position player) limp in, another player limps, LP1 raises. Hero calls (expecting the blinds and all limpers to call). They do.

Flop: Kc 8c 5s.
Checked to LP1 who hesitates and checks. Hero bets, SB calls, others fold, LP1 check-raises, Hero 3-bets (just call here and raise the turn?), SB folds, LP1 calls. (heads up)

Turn: brick (non club, not a K/A, no straigh draws completed)
LP1 checks, Hero bets, LP1 raises, Hero thinks, Hero 3-bets, LP1 calls.

River: 9c
LP1 checks, Hero bets, LP1 calls.

On the flop I put LP1 on either AA, AK, KK, or 55 (basically in that order). How would you guys play it?
(results later)
" Don’t misunderstand. A pro isn’t someone who sacrifices himself for his job. That’s just a fool.” - Reno
 
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Fnord
Old 07-23-2005, 10:57 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Well played.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Phyl
Old 07-23-2005, 01:05 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I'd play it the same. I prefer 3-betting the flop to calling and raising the turn because it puts less pressure on SB to fold.

LP1 have AA?
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mdwav
Old 07-25-2005, 01:29 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Lp1 didn't show his hand, but when I asked he said he wouldn't check-raise the turn with AK, so I'm thinking AA.
" Don’t misunderstand. A pro isn’t someone who sacrifices himself for his job. That’s just a fool.” - Reno
 
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ChezJ
Old 07-25-2005, 05:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 i strongly doubt it's AA. more likely KK for top set. AA wants to knock out as many drawing hands as possible. checkraising after everybody has already called on the flop accomplishes only one thing: enriching the pot. this is what you do if you have top set or a strong draw like the nut club flush draw. you want the pot to grow and grow. i wouldn't be surprised if LP1 had A T but i think the answer is KK.

if i had a set on a two-flush flop, and the guy on my right check-raised, i would absolutely jump at the chance to 3-bet, to attempt to knock out/punish the flush draws. i have had my sets flushed down the toilet way too many times.

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ChezJ
Old 07-25-2005, 06:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 sorry, i just re-read the HH and obviously he didn't have the flush because he didn't raise you on the river. and from your last comment, it looks like you won the hand, so apparently the guy did not have top set either. that leaves only K8s (2pr) or 55 as possibilities, unless he really overplayed AK/KQ/KJ and lied to you about it in embarrassment.

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mdwav
Old 07-26-2005, 06:32 AM #7 (permalink)  
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ChezJ wrote:
Quote:
checkraising after everybody has already called on the flop accomplishes only one thing: enriching the pot
Good point, enriching the pot with a nut flush draw is certainly possible. It completely slipped my mind because so many of the low limit B&M crowd just check-call with draws (even 15 outers). In general, when players bet I don't put them on a draw unless I've seen them bet draws before. Maybe this is a habit I need to change?

ChezJ wrote:
Quote:
i strongly doubt it's AA. more likely KK for top set
I eliminated KK from his list of possible hands after he just called my 3-bet on the turn, so in my mind it was AA or 55.
" Don’t misunderstand. A pro isn’t someone who sacrifices himself for his job. That’s just a fool.” - Reno
 
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