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Maximizing profits on a big flop

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epic

07-10-2008, 04:46 PM Post subject: Maximizing profits on a big flop

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 60

One of my biggest weaknesses is maxing my profit when I flop a monster.

CO is super LAG. He comes out betting any ace, plays any connectors, and pretty much won't let go if he catches any piece of a flop (gutshots, low pairs, 3-flushes). Other than him, the rest of the table is pretty loose and passive.

My thinking was that I'm 99% certain he's betting this flop if no one else does-if I make the first bet, I pretty certain he's going to raise and scare off any potential chasers (ie-MP3).

My turn play was weak-I was hoping to keep MP3 in, but if he misses his club/gutshot on the turn, he's probably not paying to see the river anyway.

If there's one thing I could go back and change in this hand, I'd raise the turn to get at least one more bet from CO (in hindsight, I would have gotten another 2-3 bets from him).

What else would you guys recommend to suck another bet or two out of this one?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with

.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB)

(6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB)

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP3 folds.

River: (6.50 BB)

(2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Th As (full house, tens full of aces).
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins 13.50 BB.

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Chopper

07-10-2008, 05:08 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

man, i pretty much play this the opposite.

i dont limp UTG w/ offsuited small broadways. they are WAY too vulnerable to domination. if you are going to play ATo from UTG, i dont care if there are 7 LAGs behind you, RAISE it. in the case of "the rest of the table being loose and passive" its a fold from this spot.

you flop the nuts, almost, and are too busy playing the LAG to take the value. go for overcallers here. you just do the betting, let them call, and let the LAG overplay his aggression and raise it after they've all called and wont fold "for one more."

if it thins down to you and anyone HU, then turn on the jets or c/r.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

asdpikas

07-10-2008, 05:46 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

ATo utg full ring is a muck for me.
If u wanna play it, as Chopper says, raise it.
bet the flop!!!!
Chopper explained it, u bet, all the weak types call, LAG raises, u call, everyone calls behind cause "cant fold for one more bet, the pot is so big"
If the LAG was seating directly to your left, then u check, let the LAG bet, all the weaks call, and when its back to u, u raise.

On the turn, again, lead out and hope MP3 calls and LAG raises. At this point, if MP3 folds, u can 3bet the LAG.

As played, river is good.

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

socal1111

07-11-2008, 05:53 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 191

LOL...
100% agree w/ everything said in both replies.

Full table, muck A10o... raise ATs. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP 1ST IN, LIMIT GAME!!!!

Bet flop, use CO aggr. to get xtra action in pot. Bet turn, and river.

By playing this as if you don't have it, may actually get you more action. They'll likely think you'd never play a made hand fast... as everyone under the sun would obviously check their monsters on the flop, looking to get jiggy on the turn.

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle

sinky

07-11-2008, 08:27 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: SCOTLAND

Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by socal1111

Full table, muck A10o... raise ATs. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP 1ST IN, LIMIT GAME!!!!

I also muck AT utg, but I do not agree with the never open limping. From early positions I will open limp, but never from mid or late position.

Chopper

07-11-2008, 01:54 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by socal1111

By playing this as if you don't have it, may actually get you more action. They'll likely think you'd never play a made hand fast... as everyone under the sun would obviously check their monsters on the flop, looking to get jiggy on the turn.

this is the key to most flops that absolutely hit me between they eyes, imo. what would a "normal" player do, if he HAD A10? he would try and c/r or wait for a turn card. he would NEVER lead, would he?

thats WHY we lead it. sure, you may fold the table, but you will get crazy action from a second best hand, or strong draw, that thinks you are full of crap.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

elipsesjeff

07-11-2008, 06:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

bet the flop, you can't expect your opponents to build the pot for you. Any ace/ten/gutshot is calling at least one bet on this flop drawing dead so might as well take the free money as you can.

Slowplaying multiway in LHE is really bad, as you can't make up for the lost dead money in the pot. Plus, your opponents will likely 'slowplay' a T on you and raise the turn, and you can decide how to maximize profits then.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

socal1111

07-13-2008, 02:59 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinky

Quote:

Originally Posted by socal1111

Full table, muck A10o... raise ATs. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP 1ST IN, LIMIT GAME!!!!

I also muck AT utg, but I do not agree with the never open limping. From early positions I will open limp, but never from mid or late position.

Well, then... you need to seriously work on your limit game!

Limit open- limpers = YUMMY!

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle

Chopper

07-13-2008, 03:14 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

sinky,

do you open limp when folded to in MP3 of a full ring game? on the button?

open limping UTG in 6max is about the same thing as open limping from MP2 in 9-handed games and MP3 in 10-handed games.

think about that for a second.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

elipsesjeff

07-13-2008, 05:18 AM Post subject: Re: Maximizing profits on a big flop

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic

One of my biggest weaknesses is maxing my profit when I flop a monster.

1) This is probably not as big as you think it is, because the situation comes up so rarely. Its like asking "how do i get value from quads?"

2) This is something you have to think about away from the table. I used to think about how to get value from situations vs opponents on specific boards everywhere i went; bathroom, shower, classroom bedroom...(tmi). Anyway, this is how working on your game away from the table will help you in the future. Recognize why you should call here and think of situations where you'd want to raise instead.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

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