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lunch hour hand..

  
 
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Chopper
Old 09-15-2009, 08:05 PM     Post subject: lunch hour hand.. #1 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
all fish taking weaker hands too far. set is best on flop most times, but this turn sucks. i call only for boat odds. river bricks, for me, and a new guy suddenly donks. pot is huge, but is it time to fold??

0.25/0.5 Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($15.90)
UTG+1 ($3.55)
UTG+2 ($14.40)
Hero (MP1) ($13.75)
MP2 ($11.40)
MP3 ($14.30)
CO ($25.90)
BTN ($3.95)
SB ($8.00)
BB ($20.00)

Pre-flop: (1.4 SB, 10 players) Hero is MP1
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, BTN raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls

Flop: (11.4 SB, 5 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, BTN raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, BTN 4-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls

Turn: (15.7 BB, 5 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, BTN bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO calls

River: (19.7 BB, 4 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero folds, CO calls, BTN calls

Final Pot: 22.7 BB
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 09-15-2009, 08:07 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
btw, i cant believe i get busy for a few months and this traffic completely dies off.

what the hell, guys? i know you are still playing. i will be sporadic, still, but lets get this going again.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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LawDude
Old 09-16-2009, 12:55 AM #3 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
LawDude
Preflop-- fine. Limping behind with small pocket pairs on fishy tables = standard.

Flop-- also fine. You have a wet set. Just bet aggressively to protect your hand, and if someone has you beat you are going to have outs and big pot and implied odds.

Turn-- now we are really wet. This is going to sound strange, but I might lead out on this. The problem with checking is that it encourages bluffs and you aren't going to know where you are the rest of the hand. That said, a check/call is fine if you are just going to call the hand down.

River-- the only thing I don't understand about this river is why wasn't it the 10 of spades? In any event, you are beat. UTG isn't going to bluff this with BTN already having bet the turn. And you have 2 players behind you. You can call this if you want because of the huge pot, but you aren't going to win it.
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Chopper
Old 09-16-2009, 01:38 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
what does leading out really do, though? a four-card str8 just hit and the flush hit, too. it only invites a raise, imo, and we arent folding to that, either. may as well back off the gas, being oop, and let things play out. there is no way i will fold to anything but 3bets cold. so, i decided to c/c because i knew the odds were there and then some.

i just wish the board had paired because of the crazy action i would have received.

but, then again, this is the problem i have at the micros.... they dont jam this river, either. they carry 1.0 AF's and only cram the nuts.

i saw KK flat my raise, flop a two heart board that was 8hi and still wait for the turn to c/r in a 4way pot. sadly, he held up.....the lucky douche. also had a guy flop quad A's on me today and c/c all the way to the river when the flush hit on the turn (AdAsQd7d) and boats were out all over the place. these morons leave so much money out there that it lets fish like me stay profitable...lol.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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LawDude
Old 09-16-2009, 02:20 AM #5 (permalink)  
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LawDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
what does leading out really do, though? a four-card str8 just hit and the flush hit, too. it only invites a raise, imo, and we arent folding to that, either. may as well back off the gas, being oop, and let things play out. there is no way i will fold to anything but 3bets cold. so, i decided to c/c because i knew the odds were there and then some.

i just wish the board had paired because of the crazy action i would have received.

but, then again, this is the problem i have at the micros.... they dont jam this river, either. they carry 1.0 AF's and only cram the nuts.

i saw KK flat my raise, flop a two heart board that was 8hi and still wait for the turn to c/r in a 4way pot. sadly, he held up.....the lucky douche. also had a guy flop quad A's on me today and c/c all the way to the river when the flush hit on the turn (AdAsQd7d) and boats were out all over the place. these morons leave so much money out there that it lets fish like me stay profitable...lol.
This is table-dependent, but I have found that worse hands will often bluff-bet on 4-flush and 4-straight boards, but will rarely raise. Thus, (1) you can often take down the pot right there, and (2) you get a better idea if you are behind, which is valuable in a multi-way pot where a crying call is not automatic.
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Chopper
Old 09-16-2009, 05:09 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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Chopper
i dont think i understand your point all the way.

i dont need a better idea if i am behind. i am SO vulnerable now, i need to improve to pick up the aggression again. hell, i am likely behind by now, imo.

i wont take the pot down now. that goes in hand with my other point/question. this is 5 handed. there is no way they are all folding. and, the fact it is 5 handed makes it even more likely that i am behind thanks to that pretty crappy turn card.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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LawDude
Old 09-17-2009, 12:28 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
LawDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i dont think i understand your point all the way.

i dont need a better idea if i am behind. i am SO vulnerable now, i need to improve to pick up the aggression again. hell, i am likely behind by now, imo.

i wont take the pot down now. that goes in hand with my other point/question. this is 5 handed. there is no way they are all folding. and, the fact it is 5 handed makes it even more likely that i am behind thanks to that pretty crappy turn card.
Here's the thing. In a multiway pot, you probably aren't getting very good odds on your crying call. (The best scenario for a crying call is heads up, both because that increases the probability of a bluff and because it decreases the probability of the player having a hand that beats you.)

So a check/call line isn't going to give you much value. It's just going to cost you whatever bets come in on the turn and river.

In contrast, if you lead the turn, several good things can happen. First, you can thin out the field, which makes a crying call less expensive. Second, you may take the pot down right there, if nobody has actually made the hand. (Is someone calling your turn bet with a 9 in their hand? Just because you may not have the best hand doesn't mean a protection bet is a bad idea.) Third, you can get raised, which tells you where you are and may allow you to fold on the river. Fourth, you are building the pot and getting decent implied odds on your redraw. Fifth, your aggression may actually control the pot, by either encouraging slowplay or making your villains wonder if you have them beat.

Weighed against this are that if you get raised and don't improve, you could end up putting more bets in than if you just check-called.
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Chopper
Old 09-17-2009, 01:00 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
interesting points. the last couple are completely valid to me. but, i think the fact this is a 5way nullifies the first two for sure. and, that was what i was thinking.

however, i am getting better at keeping the gas on to force them to raise and tell me what is going on. for me, it goes back to c/c vs b/f. i err on c/c too much because i dont seem to understand the value of my marginal to strong hands. and, its a huge reason i do better playing FR than SH. but, that is a leak that is currently getting plugged....with good results mind you.

that reminds me, the FR v SH thing is a very good debate. i can tell you first hand that SH has made my game a lot better. i can effectively do more things now in FR games. i can bully a little. i can induce better. i can keep the value bets coming in. and, i can find the fold button more often when i am likely behind....because these guys play back at you less in general.

i will enjoy going back and forth a little more often now. thanks for having us play FR the other night. (and, of course, i could just be running well at FR...we'll see.)
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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