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lunch hand VIII and IX..

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Chopper

10-12-2009, 06:16 PM Post subject: lunch hand VIII and IX..

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

$0.25/$0.5 Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

READ: villain has never raised...35/0/1. i prefer my comments to the results.

Stacks:
UTG (7.05)
UTG+1 (27.2)
Hero (13.75)
MP2 (18.4)
CO (8.75)
BTN (14.75)
SB (10.55)
BB (8.45)

Pre-Flop: (1.4 SB, 8 players) Hero is MP1

2 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls

Flop:

(6.4 SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls

Turn:

(6.2 BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero says "AA?", Hero calls

River:

(8.2 BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls, Hero says "oops"

Final Pot: 12.2 BB
BB shows

Hero shows a full house, Kings full of Sevens

Hero wins 11.7 BB ( won +5.7 BB )

BB lost -6.0 BB

$0.25/$0.5 Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

READ: idiots abound...villain was complete maniac...

Stacks:
UTG (17.3)
UTG+1 (2.25)
Hero (14.75)
MP2 (10)
MP3 (10.1)
CO (2.8)
BTN (9.65)
SB (23.85)
BB (7.8)

Pre-Flop: (2.8 SB, 9 players) Hero is MP1

[MP2 posts 1.0 SB]
[CO posts 0.4 SB]
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG 4-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls

Flop:

(18.8 SB, 4 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls

Turn:

(13.9 BB, 3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO raises, UTG calls, Hero calls

River:

(19.6 BB, 3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls

Final Pot: 21.6 BB
UTG shows

Hero shows a pair of Kings

CO shows

Hero wins 20.8 BB ( won +14.4 BB )

UTG lost -6.4 BB
MP3 lost -2.0 BB
CO lost -5.6 BB

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

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LawDude

10-12-2009, 06:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Hand 1:

How many hands do your stats cover? I am extremely reticent about not 4-betting KK preflop, but if you are sure that the guy will only re-raise AA or AA-KK, it's fine to call the 3-bet.

Remainder of hand (including comments) is standard, although if you really put the guy on AA pre-flop, you might consider a flat call on the flop.

Hand 2, I'm interested in the thinking behind the donk bet on the turn.

KoRnholio

10-12-2009, 06:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

I think you may have cost yourself 2 bets on the river with your table talk

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Chopper

10-12-2009, 09:47 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

stats dont cover a lot of hands. so, this could also be QQ/AK, which i realize is bad. but, that cold 3bet from a 0 pfr is usually really, really strong in my experience. i felt it best to take a flop and not get too crazy until i saw there was no A. i didnt have him on only AA preflop. however, i was pretty darned sure i was behind after his turn 3bet. the raise from me was more for clarification than value, but doesnt do any good if you dont actually fold to the 3bet. i felt the call was pretty bad on my part. miracle river saves me. however, i dont think i get extra bets here because of the 7 being paired, the flush hitting, and the fact this villain was fairly passive post flop usually. maybe so, but i dont see AA overplayed by passive opponents when the board completes draws. but, i could be completely wrong, too.

2nd hand.. the donk was because the pot was pretty large at this point and i was looking for ways to force someone to call two bets cold. if UTG donks, i raise. if he checks, i bet and hope CO raises. i feel i have winning chances, and would rather get this HU if possible. and, charge any draw the maximum. sadly, i cant rely on the others to do this most times. they just call along. but, no matter the size of the pots, a raise right in front of a player yet to act gets a lot of folds...even if it lays proper odds.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

KoRnholio

10-12-2009, 09:51 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

Maybe. But saying "AA?" on the turn and then calling completely takes AK out of your range. He may well 3bet the river if he puts you on AK.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Chopper

10-12-2009, 09:55 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

Maybe. But saying "AA?" on the turn and then calling completely takes AK out of your range. He may well 3bet the river if he puts you on AK.

i have to be honest, i have never seen a comment like this change a line....that i picked up on. i was being a smartass, and wasnt playing the hand well anyway. sometimes i do stupid shit like this, laugh at the time like i'm a badass, and kick myself later when i realize how incredibly stupid it was.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

LawDude

10-12-2009, 10:14 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Here's my problem with the way you played hand 1. If your position is going to be "he has aces", then you have two choices-- fold your kings (which I would not do at least unless an ace hits the board) or get them to a heads-up showdown paying the minimum to do so (unless and until you hit your miracle king or 4 card straight or flush).

If your position is going to be "he has a range of hands beyond aces", then you should play your kings very aggressively, 4-betting pre-flop, raising the flop, and slowing down only when it is clear to you that you are behind his range, and then calling down.

But I don't see any point in an in-between position here, because what you are doing is giving away more money if you think he has aces, and not playing your hand aggressively enough if you put him on a range beyond aces.

Further, while I am not as anal about "betting for information" as some people are, it certainly isn't ideal to be betting for information as opposed to putting the villain on a range and narrowing it (if you obtain more information) on each street.

KoRnholio

10-12-2009, 11:13 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

I don't think you played the hand badly, Chopper. I just don't like giving away free info. It's definitely an ego/mind game thing to show how superior you are to the fish.

I will sometimes call out a guy's hand, but only on the river when I am facing a call/fold decision, and my move closes the action. That way I'm not giving them any info to use against me later in the hand.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

LawDude

10-12-2009, 11:16 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Korn:

You need to play live, where knowing when to say "Ace-King no good!" is an art form.

Chopper

10-13-2009, 12:35 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

the "live" thing is definitely in this hand. and, so is the "ego" thing. you both have it nailed. although, my comment was more ego than live. and, i think it comes from all the hands we've played together lately, dude. we have been very vocal at the tables. granted, we are just having fun with the fish, but it may have rubbed off here....and you werent even there. so, its become something i need to keep and eye on.

as for the tweener of a line and betting for info... i dont bet "purely" for information. and, i hate it when someone says that was the primary reason for their bet. where i stood in this hand was that i was suspecting bullets, but couldnt completely rule out other stuff. so, i raised the turn because i was literally 50/50 as to where i was. therefore, the raise was to break the tie....if i got 3bet. because of that, the call of villains 3bet is beyond fishy (from me). you dont raise for confirmation if you cant make the fold. i got very lucky.....because i obtained the proper information AND was right.

but, as for going "bombs away" on him because his "range" was mostly behind me, this particular villain was too passive, in my judgment, to keep spewing off chips into suspected aces. now, when the villain is more aggressive, i am only behind aces, and can be much more aggro (i think i've shown that, too). but here, he was passive enough, i could only see QQ/AA/AK, and the raise was meant to isolate which hand it was. QQ calls. AK folds, unless it picked up a draw. and, AA 3bets....maybe. nothing else that i can see would even dream of 3betting, so the 3bet confirmed the aces.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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