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Lot of 6 max... why?

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Ragnar4

01-13-2006, 10:54 AM Post subject: Lot of 6 max... why?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

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Seems to me that playing at 6 max takes away at low limit poker some of the best tools you have going for you. What am I missing? more donkies calling too many bets too far down should win more money than capping the table at 6 max.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

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KoRnholio

01-13-2006, 02:21 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I've tried 6max myself but haven't had much success. I believe most of the gains are from a) more hands per hour per table and b) more chances for opponents to make mistakes on marginal hands.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Andy Holt

01-13-2006, 03:26 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

b) more chances for opponents to make mistakes on ANY AND ALL hands.

FYP

6-max leaves stronger players with a bigger advantage over weaker players as long as they make the necessary adjustments. A stronger player who has more experience can make more bets an hour shorthanded for many reasons.

koolmoe

01-13-2006, 03:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

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One of the advantages of shorthanded play is that you get to play more hands against the bad opponents at the table. In a full game, you will have more players interfering with your attempts to isolate the bad player.

On the flip side, you play more hands against the good players too.

The trick is finding the bad players and avoiding the good ones.

Poker is freedom

Ltrain

01-13-2006, 04:14 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

Just to add to some of the points on what I have found switching to 6 max on Jeff's recommendation:

1. Lessens the schooling effect. If you are an isolation player (which you should be), you rob bad players blind and they cannot rely on getting odds from other bad players to hit their miraculous holdings.

2. Table/Seat selection. After moving above 2/4, it is really difficult to find a good table at full ring. However, 6 max tables give you more selection for finding the fish and taking their money. Yes, there are really good 6 max players, but you can avoid them with more table options.

3. To follow on 2, making money 101 in poker; follow the bad players for easy money. Bad players love 6 max right now, you should too.

As previously posted however, you do see many more hands and have many more opportunities to make mistakes. There are adjustments to be made from full ring, but a good player can make the adjustments. Also, I can 4+table full ring games, but I only play 2 tables 6 max. The game is faster and you have to be more aware of what is happening.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

KoRnholio

01-13-2006, 05:49 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Holt

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

b) more chances for opponents to make mistakes on ANY AND ALL hands.

FYP

Yes, but compared to full ring, in six max playing marginal hands through to the river comes up far more often than in full ring where you can almost camp pairs/sets, top pairs, quality draws, etc.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Ltrain

01-13-2006, 05:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Holt

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

b) more chances for opponents to make mistakes on ANY AND ALL hands.

FYP

Yes, but compared to full ring, in six max playing marginal hands through to the river comes up far more often than in full ring where you can almost camp pairs/sets, top pairs, quality draws, etc.

You will make more $$ per hour isolating fish and having them fold when they incorrectly limp and miss their sets, draws, etc. in a shorthand game than hitting those same draws in a full ring.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

pokerfanatic

01-13-2006, 06:40 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: 6max limit tables

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I strongly fell 6max is a great game, it actually gives you MORE opportunity to capitalize on opponents post flop mistakes... for example in King Yoa's book says that in full ring you can only take advantage of a poor player post flop around 1 to 2 times an hour where in SH games 4-6 handed you get more of a 3-5 range of times you can exploit $$$ from the poor opponents...

The things you need to know to be able to even handle 6max would be...
you can handle larger swings in your roll, willing to play more argo, you like action on more a constant basis with the best of it, you don't mind playing HU or 3 handed after the flop often, your strengths are reading hands and playing the players...

I don't think it takes away I think it's just a different style if you could master would actually add to the game and your ability as a poker player...

lets say you started with a $1k BR and wanted to play 6 max, i personaly use a 500bb rule for 6 max plus I personaly have bills i pay with my Poker BR... below is a excel SS of what it would take to get to playing 15/30 starting at a 1k BR... It's just an example...

seems to me by the time you got to playing 15/30 you would understand how to handle super argo players, and play bettor post flop aganst it...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

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Hate

01-20-2006, 02:25 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 322

I've just switched to 6max a week ago after about 25K hands of .5/1 LHE full ring and a few thousand of 1/2. So, not the MOST experimented player in the world. I just fell in love with 6max. Perhaps I've also been running pretty well (6BB/h over 5k hands), but I just love the fact that most players there are donks, so you get 100% donks at a table rather than 50% donks, 10% who have a certain clue, 10% decent-ish/rocks, 10% no clue how the game is played and 10% okay players at full ring .5/1.
Also the H/hr factor is very enticing, as the possibility of getting MORE hands/month and perhaps even a higher BB/100 is obviously a great prospect.

Also, I find it easier to make reads at 6max on most of the players.

pokerfanatic

01-20-2006, 04:34 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hate

5k hands at 6max truly is nothing, but your on the right track that 6max you get more gamboling people that don't understand the game, while they play loose full ring they have more a chance to actually make money or break even sometimes playing 6 max with the same style they used at full ring... the 30/5/2 has much more chance to break even or even be in the green where he would probably be a for sure in the red, so the context of the players are totally different, some peoples style favored SH games, and other favored full ring... it just depends on the person...

It is possible to go up the ladder playing all full ring but I think many full ring player will stall once they hit a point where the hands are HU or 3 handed on avg post flop, which is same thing the 6max players have experience in...

I think one thing 6max has done for my game is to play bettor in the blinds and play bettor against players pushing marginal hands putting pressure on you at all times…

elipsesjeff

01-20-2006, 04:52 PM

#11 (permalink)

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6 max ownz

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ihategnomes

01-20-2006, 04:58 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

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I like 6max because I am a fish and I am comfortable with my own

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Mike_Ann

01-26-2006, 11:30 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 61

what is the best way to look for 6 max before you sit down and start playing.
Any I dea please. seem very nice I want to try but want to makesure I do the right thing 1st

pokerfanatic

01-26-2006, 11:34 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_Ann

what is the best way to look for 6 max before you sit down and start playing.
Any I dea please. seem very nice I want to try but want to makesure I do the right thing 1st

you need a much bigger BR for 6max or you will go broke... i would say 500bb min IMO...

midas06

01-26-2006, 11:37 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Look for a table with high # of players to the flop. Sit to the left of a calling station.

ArcticKnight

01-27-2006, 01:35 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Location: golf course

Posts: 416

(1)The biggest thing about 6 max is that everyone is going to get to know each other BETTER, and SOONER.

This will be a plus for you if you are more observant and aware than your opponents, and it will be a negative if they are more observant and aware than you.

For example, you need to mix up your play on sets, draws, etc. You need to mix Check-raises with betting out, and you need to cap preflop with 1010, and the next hand just call the 3 bet raise with your KK.

The last think you want is to have you actions defining your hand, as you are playing way too many hands against the same opponents. You can't afford for anyone to pick up, for example. "that you always lead with a bet when you have middle pair, and only CR Flush or OESD draws, etc."

For example. I have notes on some opponents like this (but abbreviated)

Plays weak aces from anywhere
limps with weak aces and small pairs UTG to CO.
3 bets, suited connectors preflop - smooth calls big pairs
CR all draws
Can let go of a missed Big ace
Never bets a set. Always calls and raises turn
Cold calls with any Ax

(2) 6 max is faster, thus it tends to attract more impatient players. Impatient players play too many hands, and this is a plus for you.

(3) A successful TAG at 10 handed may not be well suited to a 6 hand game if he he does not adjust and defend his blinds well. I find many good 10H TAGS let their blinds go too easily in 6H, or overagressively defend them. Also, it's difficult for TAGS to steal blinds from the button. It starts looking pretty suspicous when TAG folds UTG, folds MP, folds CO, but somehow keeps raising on the button. Players who are a bit looser or even semi-loose have a bit more of a deception advantage on the button in steal attempts.

The other posts raised some really good points, especially that it is easier to find a game where you can get position on a poorer play and play almosts twice as many hands per hour in that position.

The Biggest reason I think 6 max is best though, is (as I noted) impatience and the need for action. Many players just can't get enough hands in, thus get drawn to the action at 6 max. For many, they THINK that position does not SEEM as important as it did in 10 handed, so they are playing anything that looks half decent from just about anywhere.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

Mike_Ann

01-27-2006, 06:16 AM

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 61

wow
ty so much Arcticknight
your post very helpful
I do see very different with fullring game.
I don't want to get there yet but
Thank you for your post

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Lot of 6 max... why?

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