www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Looking for a golden flop

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

_KO_

10-09-2005, 10:40 AM Post subject: Looking for a golden flop

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 83

This table was shorthanded when I joined a couple of hands prior to this one, but in those two hands it was obvious I hit a pond... a lot of action on a lot of nothing hands. On this hand 4 new players post blinds to enter, so there are already 5.5 small bets in before the action even starts. I don't have any tools(PT or HUD) running right now, so the newbies are complete unknowns. I'm on the button with relative crap, but figure with this much forced money already in, a raise as sweetener in case I get a golden flop is worth it. I know I'm going to get plenty of calls here, so this raise is definitely a "what if" move, since I know I won't be able to induce the whole table to fold on the flop if I miss. If I don't hit anything I can always get out cheap. Do you risk a raise here, or just call to see the flop cheap? The danger of raising is I REALLY don't want to face a 3 bet or cap with this hand. On the other hand, I felt pretty comfortable that I wouldn't get reraised and this seems to me to be a perfect place to take a chance. Of course, the fact that it worked out in this situation just makes it easy for me to justify it.

Thoughts?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, 9

. MP1 posts a blind of $1. MP2 posts a blind of $1. MP3 posts a blind of $1. CO posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q

, J

, 9

(5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 folds, MP3 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2

(2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 2

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP3 has Qh Tc (two pair, queens and twos).
Hero has Qc 9s (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.25 BB.

~~ KO

"Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours." ~~ The Messiahs Handbook

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

10-09-2005, 10:42 AM

#2 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Fold preflop. Q9o only plays well 3-handed.

thenonsequitur

10-09-2005, 12:40 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Location: Location

Posts: 637

Why are you raising? I just don't understand your motivation. A raise with Q9 against a field that large most likely has no edge, so a raise is not for value, and a raise will induce few folds (if any). Also, you are pumping the pot by raising preflop, and this will often put you in a position where you are forced to call on later streets with a somewhat weak holding, simply because the pot is so big.

However, I don't like folding. With that many people in the pot and good position, you have good implied odds for a call. Exit cheaply when you don't connect with the flop, extract maximum value when you hit two pair or better or a straight draw. And in the gray areas where you hit just top pair for example, you have position, so you can try to take it to showdown cheaply (and fold against resistance).

Post-flop played well.

outphase

10-09-2005, 05:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

You're letting the results justify your bad preflop play... worst...justification...ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

_KO_

10-09-2005, 09:02 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by outphase

You're letting the results justify your bad preflop play... worst...justification...ever

I'm not a "results justify" player, despite the comment made at the end of my commentary. This is a play I would consider in very few circumstances. This happened to be one, which is the reason I posted it. I'm looking to improve my game. Just saying it's "bad" doesn't tell me anything. What makes it "bad"?

~~ KO

"Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours." ~~ The Messiahs Handbook

_KO_

10-09-2005, 09:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenonsequitur

Thanks for the explanation. I'll say first that I'm new to limit, so I am pretty green. My motivation for raising goes something like this...

5 of 6 in the pot are forced in, not in by choice.
I'm on the button and this is checked around to me.
My hand is pretty weak, but most hands that absolutely dominate this one probably raise before it gets to me.
The weaker hands that dominate this one may be induced to fold with a raise, or will check around to me if something scares them on the flop. If they catch the flop they'll probably test my hand, at which point I can get out without much damage.
The other consideration was the weakness of the players that were known.

I can see, though, how building a pot with a weak holding like this can get me trapped, and that's probably one of the biggest leaks in my game. I generally play tighter than I probably should, but there are key places I'll take a speculative risk. I'm going to guess that the consensus here will be that this isn't one of those places I should take that risk.

~~ KO

"Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours." ~~ The Messiahs Handbook

Fnord

10-09-2005, 09:27 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I would just call. OP has a point about too much dead money to fold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

euphoricism

10-09-2005, 09:40 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I would just call. OP has a point about too much dead money to fold.

10-09-2005, 11:16 PM

#9 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Well, OK
In SSH you're limping with QTo and JTo only in late position.

Q9o is worse than JTo and QTo
But you have the button already
So a limp is not horrible.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:48 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

Looking for a golden flop

Play for FREE and practice your game at...