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Live vs. online LHE, same rules same odds HUGE difference!!
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KY_Ace
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08-31-2007, 10:59 PM
Post subject: Live vs. online LHE, same rules same odds HUGE difference!!
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 259
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I play almost exclusively online but for one month a year in Toronto the Canadian National Exhibition (CNE) runs a casino and jams all of the worst poker players in the world into a small room with 20 tables of 5-10 and 10-20 (11 handed tables btw). These are the loosest games I've ever seen in my life and if there's ever a time to play live this is the time. Some players will play any 2 cards for any price and play them very poorly post flop to say the least, I'm not not talking about professionals who can play more hands because they can outplay their opponents post-flop here.
I used to play live LHE back in the day before Online poker got big and I've noticed some huge differences. Against most live players you can fold allot more hands safely on the turn or river, because the majority of live players are very passive and only bet when they are confident that they have a winner and are happy to just check call the river with TPWK and win the pot. There are some live players that make moves but you will know who they are right away if you're paying attention. With the other players if they raise you on the turn they will have TPTK beat 98% of the time and I'm not exagerating. I don't want to offend anyone here but it's true, if the raiser is female or over 50 that 98% becomes 99.9%, something about testosterone that makes players more aggressive, and the older players have learned in life to be careful with their money. That's my theory anyhow. I have come across many woman and players over 50 that make moves but like i said earlier you spot these players early, if they're not in the move-maker category then you can put them in the 99.9% category. Allot of very young players that you think would make moves play very passively, the 25-40 male group is usually the most aggressive.
Enough about steriotypes, i want to discuss laydowns. You're in the BB with K2o, flop is KT4, you check, typical player bets, you call along with a couple other payers, turn is an 8 you check, he bets again, you call along with another player, river is a 3, board = [KT4][8][3] he bets easy fold live, if it's 10-20 you only lose $30 post flop with TPWK. In an online game our opponent can easily be value betting AT or semi-bluffing with JQ. In a live game your typical opponent will NEVER bet all the way with JQ and will NOT value bet the river without top pair and even if his kicker is a 5 it still plays on that board (and the K5 doesn't have to be suited if your at the CNE). If the river pairs the 4 or is high enough that you will chop with some of the lower kickers you can call. Another example, if the river is an overcard to the top pair on the flop and the typical player who has been betting all the way bets, they have 2 pair minimum because if they are beat by the overcard they always check call of check fold if they are experienced and know the bettor is passive. An online player might say "why would someone still be in with a king??" and value bet his ten, typical live players don't think this way. Another thing I've noticed is that depending on who is in the hand, you sometimes need a slightly stronger hand to value bet the river live because the experienced players make the same folds that I have just discussed.
Getting raised on the turn by a typical player when you have TPGK:
1) if there is a straight or flush possible and you have no outs, fold, if you have outs call and fold if they bet the the river and you don't improve.
2) no straight or flush possible, call and fold on the river if the board doesn't pair. If the board pairs they might have got counterfeited look for their reaction and see how confidently they bet the river, judgment call.
3) you call and river trips, just call the river you're still losing to a flopped (or turned lol) set or top 2 or top and bottom pair or top and middle pair, the only hands you caught up to got counterfeited and will fold if you raise.
4) you call and hit your kicker on the river, if your kicker is higher than the turn card you should raise if you think they turned 2 pair. sometimes you can tell by the way they call the flop whether they turned their hand or slowplayed a set on the flop.
I'm going to the CNE now, I might continue this thread tomorrow. Any thoughts about the advantages of live play (easier to read opponents) compared to the advantages of online play ( 300 hands per hour 5 tabling )?
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