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Clumbah
Old 12-13-2006, 12:49 AM     Post subject: Live 5/10 hand #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Dec 2006
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Clumbah
Tell me what you put the villans on and if you think my flush is good. also would you have played it different?

Hero Dealt Qd10d in MP+2
3 Limpers infront and hero calls $5
CO Calls, Button calls, SB completes and BB Checks

Flop: Kd 6s Jd
Checks around to Button who bets, 4 callers then MP+1 raises and button calls. Other 4 call.

Turn: 3d
Checks around to the button who bets then MP+1 raises, Hero calls along with button.

River: Kc
MP+1 Bets, Hero raises, button folds, MP+1re-raises and hero calls

What hands do you put Button and MP+1 on? Do you think Q high flush is good with the Kd out there?

Results to come
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Clumbah
Old 12-13-2006, 12:54 AM #2 (permalink)  

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Clumbah
Also to give you my views on the players

Button was a loose donkey who would call down to the river on middle pair and raise the whole way with TPNK. I put him on a King with the slight possibility of a set.

CO+2: Was generally a fairly tight player but would value flushes alot even on paired board and was just a typical casino fish. Would bet the same on a 3 high flush as would an A high flush. I put him on a flush.
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euphoricism
Old 12-13-2006, 01:36 AM #3 (permalink)  
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That action is kinda hard to follow, but youve gotta raise that turn.
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Clumbah
Old 12-13-2006, 02:24 AM #4 (permalink)  

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Clumbah
Raising the turn is something i considered and was going to do until CO+2 raised infront of me. raising wasnt going to give me any further information and would only be for value as this player would reraise on any flush. I already put him on the flush thus getting no more information from a raise. ontop of that, raising would have gotten a fold from the button (did i want the button to fold?) as he would let his top pair go.

Any other opinions on raising the turn?

I feel i shouldnt have raised the river and not the turn? if i was going to raise it should have been the turn. i guess my line was to call so he didnt put me on the flush and have him bet the river allowing me to raise.

What hands do you put the 2 villans on?
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bigspenda73
Old 12-13-2006, 02:31 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

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 Yea, I get way more than 1 bet in on this flop
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euphoricism
Old 12-13-2006, 03:12 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Yeah pump the hell out of the flop.
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Xanadu
Old 12-13-2006, 05:02 AM #7 (permalink)  
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First, I've never seen +1 to mean to the right. +1 is one better position. It counts from the first person to act. You may wish to edit your post. Your position assuming 10 handed would be MP3 or MP+2 or HJ, but not CO+1 which would be the Button.

As for the hand, this isn't a hand you use reads except for how far you go with your raises on the turn and river. On the turn, you should be willing to cap unless you have specifically seen a raising opponent not raise a 2nd or 3rd nut flush using both whole cards on a non-paired board. If you read your opponent on the turn as capable of capping any flush, what are you doing just calling his raise? You have the second nuts and know he will play the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh nuts the same as the nuts! Against 2 loose donkeys who overly play strong non-nut hands, this is all you can eat baby. After the board pairs on the river you can slow down after putting in a raise if you get 3-bet.

Against certain opponents, the turn play could be reasonable, but probably not against these given your reads. The flop play is the problem. You have an absolute monster hand here. You want every bet you can possibly get in the pot, and it is just too risky not to bet here unless you are about 90% sure CO or button will bet. They have to be real maniacs for you not to bet here. After they do bet, you have to raise. At these loose live games, often anyone in will call any amount of flop bets with any hand. Every extra bet in the pot makes you huge money.

I wouldn't be terribly concerned with how the turn and river played out here. Not raising the turn almost has to be a mistake, the river seems fine, but could be a mistake depending on your opponent. The big errors here were on the flop. Not betting the flop could have cost you as much as 15 small bets of expected value! Not 3-betting the flop certainly cost you 3 and probably 6 small bets of value. Your hand has nearly 50% winning chances. This situation is 3-4 times as valuable as having AA preflop, maybe more.

It seems you are on the right track with your thought process here on the turn and river, but with draws like this, the real money is won or lost not after you make your hand, but how you play while you are still drawing on the flop and turn. What was your reasoning for your flop plays?

And btw, welcome to the forum. This is a very instructive hand. You should post more.
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Clumbah
Old 12-13-2006, 05:15 AM #8 (permalink)  

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Clumbah
Thanks for the replies guys! appreciate it heaps.

I definatly should have raised the flop! i was trying to just go unnoticed in the hand to get extra big bets on the turn and river rather than small bets on the flop.

Sorry about labelling the positions wrong, ill edit that now so people understand what i was trying to say!

I play quite regularly in live games at my local casino (4 or so nights a week) and am generally a winning player but the problem i am having is my wins are small, yet my losses are big thus taking 3 winning sessions just to break even after a losing session.

In the end the button folded his trip Kings and the other villan had A4d for the nut flush. One positive thing came from this beat..i managed to not tilt or change my play in any way like i sometimes would after a big pot.
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Clumbah
Old 12-13-2006, 05:21 AM #9 (permalink)  

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Clumbah
Just thinking about it some more, Why did i not raise the second nuts on the turn? :S This hand has got me thinking alot and ive learnt alot from it! luckily in this case my bad play saved me money.

i normally play $5.50 9 player SNG's online but stepped up to a $20+2 and won helped my BR along to get me a bit closer to $10+1's
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Xanadu
Old 12-13-2006, 04:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Xanadu
One thing about getting the money in on the flop this hand. You know you are the overwhelming favorite on the flop. A blank may fall on the turn, and you will have nowhere near the same equity advantage then. You want to get as much in on the flop as possible, and then when the turn helps, you pump it again, and when it doesn't, you can just call depending on exact circumstances. Plus, all your good outs make the board look scarier. Sure, the board is a little scary on the flop, but hitting your hand may kill the action.

If you routinely play strong draws this passively on the flop in big multi-way pots, that is likely your biggest leak, and could very well be the difference between being a slight winner and a solid winner.
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