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Strung
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03-13-2005, 10:29 PM
Post subject: "Limping"
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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Hi all, I got interested in playing poker online about a month ago and have been playing ever since. Been playing mostly .1/.25 blinds and have managed to take $25 deposit and turn it into $100. Even manged to place 17th/180 in my first tourny last night (Shark Cage at PR). I've been reading these forms for about as long and it's been a great help.
Sorry for the rambling.... my question is about limping and having someone raise after you. Say I have KQo and I limp from UTG or UTG + 1 and soemone raises. Do I call the raise (Is that a cold call?) or do you fold this? What if the raise becomes a 3 or 4-bet? I can see calling/ re-raising with things like AA KK QQ AKs, I just don't know about hands like that or even some pocket pairs say 22 - 77. Input would be much appreciated.
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gutshot
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
Posts: 608
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It's almost always correct to call 1 bet when it's raised behind you and you have already limped. That's not considered a cold call.
3 or 4 bets is dependent on the table and who is doing the raising. If you have a hand good enough to call 3 back to you, you should have raised in the first place.
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-jay
"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i think cold calling two more raises with KQo, or even KQs, after you're in the pot is a mistake because if an ace comes on the flop you are toast. even if it doesn't, the 3bet usually indicates somebody has a pocket pair and/or AK, both of which make you an underdog. let it go and wait for a better spot, especially with the offsuit version.
ChezJ
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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KQs
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I don't necessarily agree with Chez re:KQs. It's quite a strong hand in a multi-way pot ...... If you limp from EP with it (IMHO, that's usually the recommended way to enter the pot with KQs from EP), and it gets raised after you, and there are lots of other limpers in the pot, IMHO, you might actually want to consider 3-betting it. In general, if you are suited, you are should feel more comfortable with being in on more multi-way pots. (however, please don't take that to mean that you should play suited junk!)
KQo
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Personally, sometimes I'll raise, sometimes I'll limp with KQo; depending on my position, the game I'm in, my stack size, etc. It really depends on so many factors. Maybe this is a leak in my game, but my feeling is that the games I play in are so loose with many players playing (and cold-calling) with hands much worse than KQo, I make money playing KQo. Keep in mind that I just don't have sufficient online hand history data to back this up YET! Also keep in mind that there are other FTR limit players with alot more experience than me, and they might say that I'm misleading you here and give good reasons to refute my position on this.
But bottom line, if I've already thrown voluntary money into a pot (e.g. I limped from EP) and I'm sitting on KQs or KQo .... there's no way I'm laying it down to a pre-flop raise after me. (even if I'm heads-up against the pre-flop raiser, I'll still call and see a flop .... they might have TT, JJ, 99 ..... ). Maybe if I limp, and am then faced with calling two cold, I might consider folding .... but I'll consider the raiser and re-raiser's pre-flop raising standards before I'd make any final decision.
Also, I'm of the opinion that if you are going to play KQo from an early position, then open-raise ... don't limp. The thinking here being that you want to thin the field, get rid of any trash hands that could beat you if you do spike a K or Q. Ideally, you'd like to end up heads up against one of the blinds. If you steal the blinds, that's cool too! Note that if you are in a REALLY loose game, and thinning the field pre-flop doesn't work because they are all prepared to call two-cold with just about anything, then these reasons for open-raising are significantly undermined.
Lastly, I think I'm paraphrasing SSH here. Keep in mind that pre-flop hand selection is definitely important, but for the most part, money is won and lost post flop.
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