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limiting rake on split pots

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Shark Bait

08-13-2005, 01:58 PM Post subject: limiting rake on split pots

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 481

I've been in a few situations where it's fairly obvious that me and another player both have the nuts. Is it still right to cap it on the river for the very very very slim chance they don't have it?

In this example I was 99.9% certain he had the jack, so is it ok to raise it when I'm just increasing the rake on what it's most likely going to be a split pot?

The rake killed this hand. It was a positive 0.05 BB. I've also split the pot where I actually lose money.

So do I cap it and pay off ultimate bet, or do I realize that we have the same hand and try to make a little more profit?

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, J

.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8

, K

, T

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) Q

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (5.75 BB) A

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ah Jh (straight, ace high).
MP1 has Ks Jc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.87 BB. MP1 wins 6.87 BB.

I should have won this outright, but he stole it from me on the river.

I've also seen people bet and raise on nut boards...that's always funny.

<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!

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poskid_1982

08-13-2005, 02:11 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

On hands like this I agree that you can safely call his river raise to save yourself some rake. The stupid part about this hand is that the guy could have gotten you out by simply raising the flop with his TPGK. I love it people wont raise with pairs.

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

Shark Bait

08-13-2005, 02:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 481

Quote:

Originally Posted by poskid_1982

I love it people wont raise with pairs.

You should see how a lot of people are playing AA and KK. check/call the whole way. Even if they hit a set. It's like their aces got busted once and they can't forget it or something.

But anyway, I *think* I calculated it out correctly, and just calling his raise on the river would have resulted in 0.2 BB less rake, giving me a profit of 0.15 BB instead of 0.05 BB.

This is such a small amount I'm not even sure if it's the right move. UB has a 5% rake, so if the rake were 10% it would make more of a difference.

<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!

euphoricism

08-13-2005, 02:36 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

I pound it every time. I think the times you split and feed the rake will be more than paid for by the one time you think you're going to split but come out ahead.

You should have rakeback anyway. It shouldnt make a difference.

Shark Bait

08-13-2005, 02:43 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 481

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I calculated it out and FOR THIS HAND he has to have the jack 95% of the time or more for the call to be more profitable than the 3-bet and cap. I don't know if that's helpful or not.

I've never seen a rakeback deal that looked legit and was for a decent site that had a 5% rake. It's all at 10% rake sites...what's the point when you could just be playing 5% ?

<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!

Gatlin Dan

08-13-2005, 03:45 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

I think it depends on your oppenents and how poor they play. I've had a lot of hands where it seems pretty obvious you have the same hand and call the river to save rake only to find out I was missing out on bets because they are raising the river with god knows what.

But, if it's something like four to a straight on board, you can pretty much count on chipping the pot if the flop contains mostly high-cards. In this situation, I just call the river to avoid further rake. If I use both my hole cards to make a straight (that is not the ignorant end) I will put as much money in on the river as I can.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto

08-13-2005, 06:15 PM

#7 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

How can you ever be more than 95% sure? I'd say anything above 90% sure read is BS unless you played with this guy for like ten years.

Fnord

08-14-2005, 12:08 AM

#8 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

You'll miss more bets thinking this way than you'll ever save. Particularly since in middle limit and above games (where they're more likely to have what you think they have) the rake is capped out well before you get to decisions like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

sndp

08-14-2005, 12:22 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 84

UB has rake back plans (I use one of them). I'm not selling anything, just letting you know.

And as for saving the rake, unless I'm playing the board I'm raising with what I think to be the best hand.

|~|ypermegachi

08-14-2005, 04:25 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

this won't happen often enough for your preplanned action to be statistically significant.

Shark Bait

08-14-2005, 07:03 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 481

Another one stolen! I think I still like the cap. I mean if just one time they don't have it, I get paid off big.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A

, Q

.
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) K

, J

, T

(3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4

(3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (12.25 BB) Q

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

Results in white below:
Button has 9s Ah (straight, ace high).
Hero has Ac Qc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins 10.12 BB. Hero wins 10.12 BB.

<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!

euphoricism

08-14-2005, 04:26 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Pound it. And get rakeback. Theres no reason not to have it.
Especially make sure you pound it when theres a THIRD person in the pot. At the least, you split HIS money :]

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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jmontis

08-15-2005, 12:13 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

that's a fishy hand if i've ever seen one sharkbait. what a donkey

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

moiraine57

08-15-2005, 12:34 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 112

Correct me if I am wrong, but once you sign up to UB without rakeback, you are pretty much screwed....if you can still get rakeback, let me know, because I for one would be very interested!

But again, to tell the OP to get rakeback, when he's already signed up with UB...how is he supposed to do that???

euphoricism

08-15-2005, 02:54 AM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Make a new account. Its quite easy at UB.

Yes, UB has rakeback. Raketracker does it.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

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