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fishstick

09-20-2004, 09:38 PM Post subject: limit hand for review

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

my thinking:

preflop call - good

flop call - good (3 to a str, backdoor flush, two overs, 'lotsa outs)

turn call - should have folded, 3 spades potentially ruin all of my outs

river call - double wrong - especially with 4 spades on the board

thoughts?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: fishstick is MP2 with A

, T

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, fishstick calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8

, 9

, 6

(3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, fishstick calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 5

(2 players)
MP1 bets, fishstick calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 7

(2 players)
MP1 bets, fishstick calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 has Qs Qh (flush, queen high).
fishstick has Ac Tc (straight, ten high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 8.25 BB.

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Fnord

09-20-2004, 09:48 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Fold pre-flop unless you're following or expect lots of other cold calls.

Flop is close (small pot), Turn is an easy fold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

allLiving

09-20-2004, 10:16 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 799

Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either.

PocketFives - allLiving
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Fnord

09-20-2004, 10:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by allLiving

Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Lol, and I thought I was LAggy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

fishstick

09-20-2004, 10:34 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold pre-flop unless you're following or expect lots of other cold calls.

Flop is close (small pot), Turn is an easy fold.

of course, every hand prior to this had 5-6 people seeing the flop...

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Toasty

09-20-2004, 11:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

Yeah I don't mind the PF call if you are expecting a multiway pot. If you cold call a raise don't expect to win when you make a pair of aces unless you have a high kicker.

You have a gutshot on the flop so the call is ok (loose though) but the turn is a deff fold.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

mike4066

09-20-2004, 11:54 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by allLiving

Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Way too over aggressive with ATs.

His raise is saying he's strong i'd start him with AJ+ TT+

All of those hands dominate your ATs..

Do you really want to raise with a dominated hand?

mike4066

09-21-2004, 12:03 AM Post subject: Re: limit hand for review

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

preflop call - good

Not in this position with no other people cold calling yet. You'd be better off saving your 1 bb on this hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

flop call - good (3 to a str, backdoor flush, two overs, 'lotsa outs)

Think about your overs, they are probably tainted.
What do you think he pre-flop raised with, AJ - AK? If so your Ace is no good..
How about your T? If the T hits your staring at a near completed straight on the board.
What about your flush draw? Backdoor flush draw is about 1.5 outs. Not to mention THE BIG flush cards are probably taintd, I'd only count them as 1/2 an out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

turn call - should have folded, 3 spades potentially ruin all of my outs

Yes you should have folded, but not simply because of hte spades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

river call - double wrong - especially with 4 spades on the board

Yep severly tainted out there

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

thoughts?

A few

fishstick

09-21-2004, 06:47 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

mike:

after thinking about it:

preflop - i'll concede a marginal call (to the raise) because of no limpers so far. i'm was following SSH's "loose game" hand requirements. with UTG1 and UTG2 folding, it should have been a limp or fold.

flop - i'm putting the preflop raiser on a high pocket pair, aces and tens not quite as likely because i've got one of each. i was playing the hand (also based on his flop bet) thinking i was against JJ - KK. thinking my ace would probably be good (if i paired it) and with the backdoor flush and 3 to a straight, i still think the flop call was good

turn - should have been a dump. i've got no pair, and while i don't really fear the flush (because i'm thinking he's got a high pair), i believe his pair will beat me unless i catch an ace.

river - i won't dignify my play with a response

so, i guess i agree with all except i still think the flop call was reasonable. i'm still getting a feel for these small limit HE tables, and after seeing a lot of PF raising with hands like 88, 99, 9Ts, etc, i'm still not sure how to take some of these raises.

SSH is certainly helping.

also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike!

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

mike4066

09-21-2004, 07:19 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

preflop - i'll concede a marginal call (to the raise) because of no limpers so far. i'm was following SSH's "loose game" hand requirements. with UTG1 and UTG2 folding, it should have been a limp or fold.

You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

flop - i'm putting the preflop raiser on a high pocket pair, aces and tens not quite as likely because i've got one of each.
i was playing the hand (also based on his flop bet) thinking i was against JJ - KK. thinking my ace would probably be good (if i paired it) and with the backdoor flush and 3 to a straight, i still think the flop call was good

The flop call was 7:1 Yes you can make calls based off of this. What about the turn? Your going ot have to call another bet there. then your staring at 4:1 on your call.. Those are odds to call a flush, but they are so close, and your heads up. You've got no implied odds after that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

turn - should have been a dump. i've got no pair, and while i don't really fear the flush (because i'm thinking he's got a high pair), i believe his pair will beat me unless i catch an ace.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

river - i won't dignify my play with a response

Your such a calling station...

One thing i've learned is that I tend to compound mistakes in one hand. This is something i've learned to stop fast. If i make a bad preflop call and realize it I fold the hand immediatly. I do'nt try to make something happen by calling it down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

so, i guess i agree with all except i still think the flop call was reasonable.

I've already said my piece about the pre/flop plays

But in your defense I've had 10 minutes to think it over. You had ot do it on the spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

SSH is certainly helping.

Awesome book, I'm reading it now. I'm playing WAY tigher than he sugguests though.
I'm currently running 4BB/100 hands @ 2200 hands of .5/1 limit holdem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike!

Ban me and I'll post your home phone number in the mens room of every truckstop between ohio and florida. Call for a good time.. any time.. day or night. Have lube will travel!

fishstick

09-21-2004, 09:07 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too.

their loose game hands are for 6-8 seeing the flop, but in my case with 2 folded, and MP player's raise sure to fold others... i think i'm going to stick with the tight version as well. a bet saved...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

Your such a calling station...

i've been through this with jm - don't make me come to ohio, 'cause i will! :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

SSH is certainly helping.

Awesome book, I'm reading it now. I'm playing WAY tigher than he sugguests though.
I'm currently running 4BB/100 hands @ 2200 hands of .5/1 limit holdem.

agreed on the book and keep up the good work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike!

Ban me and I'll post your home phone number in the mens room of every truckstop between ohio and florida. Call for a good time.. any time.. day or night. Have lube will travel!

i find this to be an immature comment, so let just say: "dude, you suck!"

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Fnord

09-21-2004, 09:23 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too.

Ditto on that. Assume the game is SSH "tight" until proven otherwise. I think his loose game advise is for playing against a table full of crack addicts and gamboolors. Party has some of both, but there are enough sharks around such that the table is rarely full of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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