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LHE: Turning a pair into aggression

  
 
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Fnord
Old 09-16-2004, 06:26 AM     Post subject: LHE: Turning a pair into aggression #1 (permalink)  
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Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, A.
MP3 posts, CO posts
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7, 4, 2 (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (4 BB) J (4 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, Hero???

Not sure about the pre-flop and flop play either...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 09-16-2004, 07:17 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The resident LAgg says raise pre-flop and come out swinging. As played the turn is a fold and maybe the flop too.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...part=1#1029532
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Toasty
Old 09-16-2004, 08:04 AM #3 (permalink)  
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It's a strange hand, you havn't a clue where you stand, smells like 2 pair to me. Could easily be J lower kicker though. With two flush draws out and a raise I think you can fold here and not be to bothered if you folded the winner.

I agree with the PF raise though, esp with two posters. BTW what's the name of the resident LAg ? I can't veiw 2+2 from here. I also hang out in the SH forum although I rarely post.
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Fnord
Old 09-16-2004, 08:07 AM #4 (permalink)  
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SThief09 is the resident LAgg, or if you're truely blessed the Alpha LAgg Nate'tha'Great will reply. SThief09 builds pots and doesn't fold a lot, so when he says it's a laydown...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Toasty
Old 09-16-2004, 09:21 AM #5 (permalink)  
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hehe NAte the Great is the resident Lag in my forum along with the big ruski :P
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Flatbush
Old 09-16-2004, 05:04 PM #6 (permalink)  

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I like raising preflop, especially with two posters, i think this is pretty big.

Also, since I am a LAGG, I will likely 3 bet the turn raise, if not I fold.

In an unraised pot like this, I think you can fold the flop....and I think that same unraised aspect would lead me to fold the turn for two bets as well the more I think about it.

I'm blocked from 2+2 at work so I'll read the comments over there from home later.

I think this hand is interesting.
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Fnord
Old 09-16-2004, 06:25 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Normally this is a limp pre-flop if there were 3 limpers. However with 2 posters, you have a good chance of getting some of the posters and/or the Big Blind to fold. From there proceed with the usual aggro line.

As played, the flop is close because you're looking at ~3 outs per SSH in an unraised pot. The turn is bothersome because the raise could represent a Jack or a slow played hand (call the flop, raise the turn is a common monster line.) I think the NL adage "don't lose your ass with TPTK in an unraised pot" almost applies here. Fold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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scgolfer
Old 09-16-2004, 08:46 PM #8 (permalink)  
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So being that I didnt raise preflop, which I agree in retrospect was a bad idea. Actually thought about it, but being totally out of position, thought I could either trap with the fairly strong hand or get out easily. Bad idea? I think the turn 3 bet is still ok, he could have Jx and wanted to see if anyone else did. He had the two pair and I lost, but in limit it didnt hurt as much as in NL. Trying to be more aggressive and it caught me here.
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Krapp
Old 09-16-2004, 08:53 PM #9 (permalink)  
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My 2cents:

I would either play the preflop aggressively: raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn... If someone raises me on the turn, I am assuming 2pair or trips and lose some money

Passively: Complete SB, fold flop.

The check/call on the flop looks like a dubious play but the pot odds are interesting enough to look at one more card ($2 in a $28 pot). MP3 I am not worried about too much, they could be betting just about anything on the flop and any other calls behind are justified to call b/c of pot odds. (I would hope of have a pair, flush, or straight draw). I am not sure if AJ is worth calling.

I think the turn deserves a bet by you and a CO raise at least gives you some comfort you are beat. CO smells like 2pair to me (sets are possible but very hard to read)
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allLiving
Old 09-16-2004, 09:09 PM #10 (permalink)  
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IS it possible CO is raising a diamond flush draw with mid pair?

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Fnord
Old 09-16-2004, 09:29 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Given a typical passive read,

95%+ of the time here CO has at least a Jack. My rough guess is 60%+ he's got 2 pair or better. If he's got you beat, he's capping 75%+ of the time.

Remember, that most players play too many hands too passivly. Particularly on more expensive streets.

I almost think in order of EV:
Fold
Call (bet the river)
Raise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Krapp
Old 09-16-2004, 10:10 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allLiving
IS it possible CO is raising a diamond flush draw with mid pair?
Possible, althought CO having 2-diamonds and calling the flop makes noe sense. One of the diamonds would need to be a 2diamonds. If 72diamonds or 7diaminds and another diamond, one might expect a raise from CO on flop.
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