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LHE ----> NL

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Jibalob

11-23-2007, 02:27 PM Post subject: LHE ----> NL

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Background:
I have been playing 6-max LHE seriously since around june this year and have worked my way up from 0.25/0.50 to 5/10 so I have a fairly good understanding of odds, EV, hand reading etc etc. Along the way I have been playing some NL MTTS in which I have acheived a handful of FTs and one or two 1st place finishes. I also used to play sngs before I started taking poker seriously.

So, I am not a complete NL virgin but have never really researched it either (havent even read HOH yet!). I also do not plan on doing much reading on the subject as this is only a temporary measure (for now).

I will soon be playing the occassional NL session but this is only a temporary measure. I am rolled for $400NL but guess that this would be a complete disaster if I jumped straight in.

My questions:
- What level would you suggest I try first? I was thinking maybe 50NL for a couple of sessions then 100NL if everything goes smoothly?
- Should I stick to 6-max (where my LHE cash game experience is) or FR where my limited NL MTT experience is?
- Has anybody else made the transition fairly quickly / easily without doing much reading up on NL theory?

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

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Ash256

11-23-2007, 04:07 PM

#2 (permalink)

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50NL if you're restricted to US sites, 100NL if you can get on eurofish sites.

One huge error I've seen LHE -> NL players make is folding to small river bets getting like 6:1 where the LHE "save a big bet" instinct kicks in, when it's very often incorrect to fold.

Jibalob

11-23-2007, 05:10 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

One huge error I've seen LHE -> NL players make is folding to small river bets getting like 6:1 where the LHE "save a big bet" instinct kicks in, when it's very often incorrect to fold.

But I should fold more flops/turns right?

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Miffed22001

11-23-2007, 09:57 PM

#4 (permalink)

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you'll find NL quite easy IMO, just dont call in marginal spots, and remember to still bet for that value.

euphoricism

11-23-2007, 11:36 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Well, I worked from .05/.10 to 5/10 LHE, switched to NL, and never made it past 50NL.

So, good luck. I can't seem to do it, and I know more about poker than 99.999% of my opponents.

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Miffed22001

11-23-2007, 11:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Well, I worked from .05/.10 to 5/10 LHE, switched to NL, and never made it past 50NL.

So, good luck.

you need sweating

euphoricism

11-23-2007, 11:38 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Well its not exactly fair. I've withdrawn a couple grand which has kept me low too.

But yeah, I need to figure this shit out.

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Miffed22001

11-23-2007, 11:53 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Well its not exactly fair. I've withdrawn a couple grand which has kept me low too.

But yeah, I need to figure this shit out.

did you move back to AP's sweet games yet?

euphoricism

11-24-2007, 12:00 AM

#9 (permalink)

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I'm at cake. Similarly sweet games, shittier software

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Jibalob

11-24-2007, 01:39 AM

#10 (permalink)

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I thought all the fish had left cake now?

Anyways, I'll report back on my first session tomorrow

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

biondino

11-24-2007, 02:17 AM

#11 (permalink)

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I'd say start at 25nl - when playing a new game your roll is irrelevant. You WILL need time to bed in - cash no limit is different from tourney no limit is different from cash fixed limit. So do it at a level where there are enough donks who pay you off to make up for the inevitable learning experiences along the way.

kettleofish

11-25-2007, 04:18 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Can i ask why you're switching to NL temporarily? Are the minbet holdthem games getting tougher, or do you just fancy a change of pace?

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

euphoricism

11-25-2007, 05:43 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

I thought all the fish had left cake now?

Nope, I still play there, so there's atleast one.

(dont listen to my bitching about how you can't do it, I'm on lifetilt. You'll be fine.)

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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Jibalob

11-26-2007, 09:15 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Just fancied learning NL so I can always find a good game even when the LHE tables are full of sharks. I also feel that it might improve my MTT game a little.

Got stacked for the first time the other day and it wasn't nice, got all the chips in on the flop with the nut straight vs top 2 pair and of course, he turns the full house and rivers quads.

I always though NL would be more exciting and "action packed" than LHE but to be honest it's a total bore IMO.

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Andypandy

11-26-2007, 09:51 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

you'll find NL quite easy IMO, just dont call in marginal spots, and remember to still bet for that value.

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Jibalob

11-26-2007, 09:22 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Wheeeeeeeee

NL 6-max is awesome once you find a good game!

My NL history so far:

I played about 90 hands of 100NL (my first ever NL session) on sat and got stacked with the nut straight on the flop by runner runer quads.

Played about 50 hands of 50NL today and doubled my stack, followed by about 50 hands of 100NL where I made another buy-in (guy called off his stack with pocket 3s on a TJxQx board).

NL will be making up most of my sessions now until I have rebuilt my BR back to atleast $4k after my recent withdrawals and life tilt destroyed myy last roll.

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

kettleofish

11-26-2007, 10:28 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibalob

I always though NL would be more exciting and "action packed" than LHE but to be honest it's a total bore IMO.

I've heard other people express this opinion as well, although with my limited LHE experience I think they're two sides of the same coin. Both are about playing optimally, or at least attempting to. They can both get quite mechanical, but i find that the added possiblity of getting felted helps keep NL interesting

6-max NL can be wonderful if you find the right tables. I've spent all this month being really picky; generally i won't sit at a table for more than 3 orbits if there isn't at least 1 (pref 2) uber spewtard, and i just attempt to isolate them so i can take all their monies, then head to another table. Or if they reload even better! The result: 14BIs at $10NL and 13BIs at $25NL. Granted these stakes are more donktastic than $100NL, but it all counts :P

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

Ash256

11-26-2007, 10:35 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibalob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

One huge error I've seen LHE -> NL players make is folding to small river bets getting like 6:1 where the LHE "save a big bet" instinct kicks in, when it's very often incorrect to fold.

But I should fold more flops/turns right?

Implied odds get much much more important, also you have a chance to get all the money in with a ~50% equity big draw.

Other than that, I can't really think of much to say.

astrodon

11-27-2007, 01:52 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibalob

Wheeeeeeeee
I played about 90 hands of 100NL (my first ever NL session) on sat and got stacked with the nut straight on the flop by runner runer quads.

Played about 50 hands of 50NL today and doubled my stack, followed by about 50 hands of 100NL where I made another buy-in (guy called off his stack with pocket 3s on a TJxQx board).

I see this notation quite alot [ 50NL; 100NL; 200NL ]. I am not familiar, is this tournement buy ins? SnG's? If not what are the blinds? Just confused by the abbrev...

Thanks

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jyms

11-27-2007, 02:05 PM

#20 (permalink)

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It's the typical 100BB buyin for NL cash games. $50NL would be $0.25/$0.50 blinds. Eveen on sites like AP where the buyins can be up to 200BB, the stake is still based on 100BB. So when buying in at $100 on the $50NL table, the blinds are still $0.25/$0.50. They do this because in limit you can play those same blinds and buyin with $3K or $15.

Short answer, 100BB games.

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Fnord

11-27-2007, 09:57 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Reads become more important as stacks get deeper. After the pot gets over 100bb or so, it's a lot of "it depends."
Consider playing for less than 100bb until you get more comfortable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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Jibalob

11-27-2007, 10:15 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Reads become more important as stacks get deeper. After the pot gets over 100bb or so, it's a lot of "it depends."
Consider playing for less than 100bb until you get more comfortable.

To be honest my reads don't seem to have been affected by the switch, I'm feeling pretty comfortable 100bbs deep already (this is probably due to the god awful opposition I'm facing) and I've only played about 400 hands of NL.

Oh... and my first stack which I just took down about 5 mins ago

:

Table #5109584 - Bombadil's
Starting Hand #251635214
Last Hand #251633905
Game Type: Hold'em
Limit Type: No Limit
Table Type: Ring
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $0.50/$1
Button is at seat 1
Seat 1: qqqqaa - $97
Seat 2: Methyl - $155.70
Seat 3: VitaLamm - $188.92
Seat 4: Pogo650 - $154.70
Seat 5: chucken - $62.30
Seat 6: smurs42 - $74.45
Moving Button to seat 2
VitaLamm posts small blind ($0.50)
Pogo650 posts big blind ($1)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [4h 7c] to Pogo650
chucken folds
smurs42 folds
qqqqaa calls $1
Methyl calls $1
VitaLamm calls $1
Pogo650 checks
Dealing Flop [Ah 5s 6c]
VitaLamm bets $4
Pogo650 calls $4
qqqqaa folds
Methyl calls $4
Dealing Turn [8c]
VitaLamm bets $16
Pogo650 raises to $32
Methyl folds
VitaLamm raises to $64
Pogo650 raises to $149.70 (all-in)
VitaLamm calls $149.70
VitaLamm shows [Ac 8h]
Pogo650 shows [4h 7c]
Dealing River [6h]
Taking Rake of $3 from pot 1
Pogo650 has Straight, 8 high
Pogo650 wins $312.40 with: Straight, 8 high
Methyl: 56
Seat 1: qqqqaa - $96
Seat 2: Methyl - $150.70
Seat 3: VitaLamm - $34.22
Seat 4: Pogo650 - $312.40
Seat 5: chucken - $62.30
Seat 6: smurs42 - $74.45
Pogo650 does his best dancing ever - PKR is sooo funny lol (although the novelt wears off very quickly!)

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Fnord

11-27-2007, 10:27 PM

#23 (permalink)

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If people at your site are paying off deep and not testing you, have fun.

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KoRnholio

11-28-2007, 12:10 AM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibalob

I always though NL would be more exciting and "action packed" than LHE but to be honest it's a total bore IMO.

Yeah I find NL ring games incredibly boring. 6-max is a little more action packed, but it's hard to get water (or in this case, money) from rocks.

I went back to PLO ring games for a bit today and re-realized that I left NL/PL cash game in general because you have to nut camp sooo much compared to tournies. I guess I am just a sng/tourny donk :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

One huge error I've seen LHE -> NL players make is folding to small river bets getting like 6:1 where the LHE "save a big bet" instinct kicks in, when it's very often incorrect to fold.

This sounds backwards btw. Most of the time in LHE you are *not* folding on the river getting 6:1 or better after calling the turn. The idea is to save the 6+bet pot instead of one bet.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

pokerfanatic

11-28-2007, 12:52 PM

#25 (permalink)

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I think that NL is a bit easier to play extremely well post flop... I kind of feel this way because in NL you hardly ever have direct pot odds to call a hand so you look at the stack your opponent has and figure that if you hit you get x% of the stack (against good players it wont be all of it... unless they have an absolute monster)... example you have a FD guy bet the pot... the pot is $10, he has $20 left behind him thus a total of $30 therefore you figure at best you have a $30:10 call or 3:1 last time i checked you needed 4.1:1 to make the play profitable... correct me if my thinking is wrong here, but in a ring game you probably shouldn't play that situation... However if he had a total of $40+ then of course you would play it...

I guess to put it simply you have more clear cut decisions to make in NL majority the time then in limit... just a thought please do call me dumb if I'm wrong...

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Jibalob

11-28-2007, 01:27 PM

#26 (permalink)

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The one thing that's starting to wind me up about NL (other than the fact its a bore 80% of the time) is that I absolutely canot multitable NL without a HUD (I mean I cant even 2-table).

I've been playing about 50% NL the past couple of days and I see it (slightly) improving my LHE game, I am a little bit too aggro at the 6max LHE tables but misplaced aggression seems to be punished a hell of alot more, its making me think hard about when to just slow down and ease off.

This experience is making me think about learning some other forms of poker too (Omaha, stud razz etc).

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

euphoricism

11-28-2007, 02:40 PM

#27 (permalink)

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The biggest problem I had with switching to NL was fighting back my tendency to show down TPTK.

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Jibalob

11-28-2007, 03:46 PM

#28 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

The biggest problem I had with switching to NL was fighting back my tendency to show down TPTK.

Quite bizzare, but I don't think I've even had TPTK yet (maybe I have but certainly not in a tough spot) - my NL playing style is probably far from orthodox but it seems to be crushing the fish anyway.

Can anyone recommend any other styles of poker I should try in order to improve my "poker brain"? My overall goal is to become a winning player at 30/60 LHE and to become a solid MTT player.

BTW - I would strongly recommend that anyone here who has not played NL ring games or other types of poker before to give it a go, I think it is really helping my poker thought processes overall.

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Hermann the Lombard

11-28-2007, 06:51 PM

#29 (permalink)

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Jibalob, you know I'm a novice so take this with a grain of salt, but it sounds like you may be heading for a fall. I noticed that you went from seeing NL as "a bore" to "awesome" in 12 hours. Your success and your enthusiasm are excellent, but you may ride the upside of variance into higher stakes where a downswing can send you to Busto in a hurry. You may--repeat, "may"--want to hold your ground at a safely-rolled level and see how things shake out over a few thousand hands. Please forgive me if this seems too obvious--or presumptous!--for words.

Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

KoRnholio

11-28-2007, 06:52 PM

#30 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

The biggest problem I had with switching to NL was fighting back my tendency to value bet relentlessly with TPTK.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I suck at deep stacked full ring NL Hold'em.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Hermann the Lombard

11-28-2007, 07:25 PM

#31 (permalink)

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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

Jibalob

11-29-2007, 07:55 AM

#32 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

I noticed that you went from seeing NL as "a bore" to "awesome" in 12 hours.

NL is definately a bore overall - It's just awesome when you are at a SH table with a couple of complete spewtards who are ready to stack off on the river with TP any kicker. Instead of value betting for 1 extra BB you can take their entire stack.

(Trust me, with the opposition I'm up against it is very unlikely that I wil go busto playing the occassional NL session)

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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Hermann the Lombard

11-29-2007, 10:40 PM

#33 (permalink)

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No offense meant, and don't worry, I trust you (he says with his hand pressed firmly over his wallet).

Oh, no! Not another learning experience!

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