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Lets clear our heads.

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euphoricism

03-08-2006, 01:12 PM Post subject: Lets clear our heads.

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

When I play poker, I fire up the poker site, fire up PokerTracker, start the import timer, open the ring game window, and start playing poker. After a few hands, I look at the ring game window to see how much I'm up or down. I play a few more hands, often using 'force import' so that i can get as close to up-to-the-minute info on whether I am up or down and by exactly how much. I repeat this probably 1000 times a session just so I know exactly if I'm winning or losing.

How many people here do this just like me?

Now, would it be better for us to simply not have any idea exactly how much we're up or down? In a given 1,000 hand stretch, do we care if we're winning or not, does it really matter?

Does it do for you what it does for me.. when I'm winning, I'm ok and nothing changes, but when I'm losing I become a bit more prone to tilt. "Fucking bullshit I'm down 50 bets! this game sucks! fuck shit ass monkeyballs!" Wouldn't it be better if I had no idea if I was down 50 bets or not? Do we really NEED to know how much we're up or down? It doesn't make a damned bit of difference - its just pushing us toward results oriented thinking, and thats bad. Bad bad bad.

As a group, I think we need to do this:

A) Decide how many tables you want to play, and how many hands you want to play per day.
I like to three or four table 6max, and I want 1000 hands per day.

B) Multiply your expected hands/hour/table by the number of tables youre playing.
At 6max I expect about 60 hands per hour per table, so 180 to 240 hands per. I'll take the average of that and say 210 hands per hour per table.

C) Devide your target hands by your hands per hour
210 hands per hour and I want 1000 hands, so 1000/210 is 4.75 hours.

D) Play your target number of hours
E) When finished, open the ring game section and see how you did.

Now of course if youre using a HUD, you should autoimport hands, but you should NOT have the ring game window open. It serves you no purpose, and does you no good. You do not need to know your VPIP/PFR. Its fine, its the same as it was yesterday. You do not need to know your W2SD/W$@SD - it'll either do nothing for you or make you tilt. You do not need to know your bb/100 - its useless anyway.

Lets clear our heads. There might be something to be said about playing for a WEEK or MONTH and never looking at your profit/loss, as long as youre within your bankroll rules.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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Xanadu

03-08-2006, 03:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

yeah, you should stop doing that. I play on paradise and don't like the way the gametime+ looks, so I have my ring window open to use gametime on PT. I don't bother looking at my winrate for a session, and I know you know you should distance yourself from that and just play poker. Maybe just don't open the window so you can't check.

Renton

03-08-2006, 03:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

I agree with this. i have been victim to this form of tilt many many times. Thankfully I am going to play at my family's house this weekend and there will be no poker tracker to even look at. : )

pokerfanatic

03-08-2006, 07:21 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

This is a SUPER BAD mentality!!! I run PT like everyone one else, I might even notice my wins and looses to an extent once I hit 4 tables of 3/6 6max I no longer can keep track of anything but my hands and the action when I play half time I don't even notice if I win or lose a hand I bet the river and look at a diff table... So a remedy for paying WAY to much attention to your chips is to play more tables where you don’t have time to look…

I don't even have my PT maximized at any point (benefit of having only one screen to look at), so it's almost like it wasn't running at all... In reality I’m only looking at my stats if I fell I’m playing below average and where I need to adjust to be playing correctly again… if I feel I’m playing well I don’t look at the PT till I’m done with the session and go wow I made x amount, or wow I’m down x amount, then I decide if I’m going to take a small break or be done for the day.

Euph, I think that BECAUSE you watch you lose so closely you tilt a little bit because you get into the mentality that you HAVE to get it back RIGHT THEN, this is a long term game you WILL have hands and sessions that lose or are down over all. As I ghosted you last night I was trying to make this point, you made a comment a couple time "I NEED to get paid off." Well you don't NEED to it's not about ONE hand!

I had the same mindset as you Euph that why I know so much about it, and you deny it a lot however excepting you have this leak is the first step you have to learn to stand up before you take a step and a step before you can run...

As for my stats on any HUD I hide them I don't need to see it, I’ll look at that AFTER I’m completely done with my session in my daily review of my stats...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

euphoricism

03-08-2006, 07:56 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

you deny it a lot however excepting you have this leak is the first step you have to learn to stand up before you take a step and a step before you can run...

Its the PokerTracker Anonymous Twelve Step Plan.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Hate

03-08-2006, 08:01 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 322

The problem with my is I'm good enough at maths to calculate how much i'm up or down over the 4 tables without really tring to.
I really need an option for PokerAce to cover my table balance

euphoricism

03-08-2006, 08:12 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...iltBlocker2000

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

pokerfanatic

03-08-2006, 10:09 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

LMFAO

ArcticKnight

03-11-2006, 04:32 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Help me out here folks.........even multi-tabling (with or without Poker Tracker), we are all good enough with math to intuitively know whether we are (1), up lots (2) up slightly (3) near even (4) down a bit, and (5) down lots in any given session.

So, even hiding the accurate tracking data is not going to change things when you intuitively know you are running bad on 3 tables, about even on one, and slightly up on another....

If you are prone to titlting or short-term loss chasing, then I can't see where shutting down the tracking is going to change much...you'll still know you are running bad..

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

pokerfanatic

03-11-2006, 04:51 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

true even today i just knew apx how much i had droped trying to clear the stupid $120 reload on stars...

then i looked at my PT stuff and went FUCK!!! and quit... yea today wasn't fun for me, +20bb then -120bb to -67bb and my ass still hurts... it's not +EV to drop that much for $120... bad idea...

just figured i'd give an example...

euphoricism

03-11-2006, 07:00 AM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

I will fully admit that I cannot do basic arithmetic in my head. Nope, not at all. If you show me that at a 10/20 table ($500 buyin) I have $340 at one table, $652 on another, and say $531 on the last, I could not even approximate a guess as to how much I am up or down. Hell, looking at it right now, I dont even know if I would be up or down at all. I'd have to think about it. I just can't do it without intense thought.

Jeff and Fanatic can vouch for this. I'll look at my PT stats and itll say im up $xxx, and I'll ask them to devide that by 20 so I know how many bets I'm up or down. Its very, very sad. I'm good at start/run/calc though.

Good ol' Miami-Dade Public School System.

Edit: re-read your post. Its late. Generally when I feel I'm getting beaten the hell out of, I'm usually only actually down 20 bets or so. I guess I have a very strong confirmation bias. Noticing the bad lots, ignoring the good lots.

My head has always been my biggest threat to playing winning poker. I know I play well. I'm thinking of uninstalling PT altogether, as I still find myself cheating. "I gotta know! I gotta know!"

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

ArcticKnight

03-11-2006, 10:11 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

As far as math goes, everyone just needs to find a way that works for them.

For me, for example, I never think about "big bets" except in terms of a bankroll. Other than that it's dollars and percentages.

I find it much easier to deal in percentages/dollars than odds/big bets, so that's what I do during a game. For me, the latter is an extra conversion I don't need to make.

At the end of a session I am only concerned about how much $ I won or lost. The BB conversion is meaningless for me. In the long run PT can tell me how I'm doing on the BB/100 hands scenerio, so I can reference that for relative comparisons.

In your example you can quickly note that the first two tables almost cancel each other out, so you only have to look at the last table to se where you are.

A question...if you are playing three tables and having trouble with math, how are you determining odds/percentages quickly enough when you need too?

That's where my math get's put to the test -- when I'm rushed.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

|~|ypermegachi

03-11-2006, 10:31 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

it's much more efficient to just memorize the chart and go with that.

midas06

03-12-2006, 12:37 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

What chart?

ArcticKnight

03-12-2006, 01:17 AM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

What chart?

Charts with "outs" linked to odds and/or percentages

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

euphoricism

03-12-2006, 01:36 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Mainly I've memorized just memorized the chart.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

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