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Chopper
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09-07-2006, 01:47 AM
Post subject: Less than optimum?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i am sure that limping AKs is very -EV; however, what else can you do on a passive table. i lost action by raising AA, KK, AK(both o and s), JJ, and even ATo from UTG already. i didnt know what else to do.
btw, how do you deal with a table that folds to raises in position, yet calls you all the way down when you bet oop never showing any strength?
PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K , A.
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (7 SB) J , T, 6 (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.
Turn: (5.50 BB) J (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button folds, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.
River: (9.50 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.
Final Pot: 11.50 BB
based on the table's passivity, this worked one time. should i do this more often, or make it a "one time thing" that got lucky.
btw, it was the first hand over $5 i had won this large in the past two nights playing about 200 hands each night...any suggestions?
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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if you bet the flop, the better line is to bet the turn. you miss too many bets too often to have this play be worth it.
also, not raising AKs, then losing a big pot does not permit you to complain about the loss of the hand. always raise with it, taking the blinds alone isn't as bad as you might think.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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#1 where did i indicate that i lost the hand. i won, thats why i asked if it was too stupid to limp.
#2 what is wrong with the c/r? the bet on the flop and the check on the turn looks like i am afraid of the flush.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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this is called the screwplay, it works best when you are playing super aggressive opponents or people who float lots.
That being said, I don't like it with the flush on a paired board.
You also said that the table is passive. That means they'll check this turn through lots. This is bad.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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i didn't mean to say you lost the hand. I'm speaking generally... most players tend to complain when AK doesn't win.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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flotu
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 304
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Raise preflop. Other than that I like your play.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
#1 where did i indicate that i lost the hand. i won, thats why i asked if it was too stupid to limp.
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Limping AKs isn't so big a mistake, as it plays relatively well multiway. You should always raise AKo, though, because you want to thin the field.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
#2 what is wrong with the c/r? the bet on the flop and the check on the turn looks like i am afraid of the flush.
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I think that's a great spot to bet/3bet. Since the J paired, there is the possibility that someone behind you will raise, and you might trap the field for 3 bets. With a check/raise, you might get it checked through on occasion, and even when it is successful, you'll usually only when two bets, not three.
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Poker is freedom
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Koolmoe wrote:
Quote:
I think that's a great spot to bet/3bet. Since the J paired, there is the possibility that someone behind you will raise, and you might trap the field for 3 bets. With a check/raise, you might get it checked through on occasion, and even when it is successful, you'll usually only when two bets, not three.
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the reason for the check raise was in a multi-way pot w/ me out of position, i figured if i checked the flop, someone was likely to bet it. i know this is somewhat of a gamble, and i wouldnt do that w/ only 1 or 2 behind me, but with as many as i had, i thought it was a "lock" to get 1 BB in on the flop.
do you think my odds, on a passive table, were just as good to string 4+ into the turn with a bet/3-bet? i figure that would make it heads up, and i think i would get paid better with 4 in on the turn than with 1-2. sorry, you meant bet the turn for a 3-bet, not the flop.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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dizz
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: moscow, ID
Posts: 7
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limping with AKs isn't a bad play, though it isn't max ev. but at a passive table you might want to encourage multi way action + getting lower dominated aces to call.
don't get tricky just bet the turn, and go with the same action. I've lost too many bets for me to ever check this turn again.
Bet hope someone RR's and then 3bet that sheet much more value in betting.
but checking can't hurt every now n then to mix up your playing style.
=-).
I just play standard though, it's easy and doesn't require thinking or giving a free card to another spade and completely killing action, or checking and a double paired board comes up.
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kyc12
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
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Look at the flop again. You have the nut FD, gutshot, plus two overcards. It looks highly likely that someone will have a Q (6 limpers), so I'll count your K as 1 out and A as 2.5 outs. And I think that's quite genourous. Then you have 15.5 outs. Your pot equity is about 55%. Plus sometimes you may draw the pot with someone else.
If you raised pf, let's assume two callers, and you get the same flop. Now the pot will be around 6-7 SB, but since all your outs will likely be good, and you will sometimes win unimproved, your pot equity is higher than 18 outs (63%). Let's say it's 65%.
So, which situation you want to be in?
Feel free to critique my math if you think it's incorrect.
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dizz
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: moscow, ID
Posts: 7
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K as 1 out and A as 2.5 outs
yeah care to tell me how in the living hell you got these #'s, please tell me you just made that off the top of your head with absolutely no reasoning, if there was reasoning, I'd love to know  .
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kyc12
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dizz
K as 1 out and A as 2.5 outs
yeah care to tell me how in the living hell you got these #'s, please tell me you just made that off the top of your head with absolutely no reasoning, if there was reasoning, I'd love to know . |
shut up and post something useful
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kyc12
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
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Also don't we want to c/r the flop? Force out hands like A3 or 97?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kyc12
Also don't we want to c/r the flop? Force out hands like A3 or 97?
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no, we want as many bets in as possible and as many players in because when we hit the flush we win almost automatically
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