|
Les_Worm
|
02-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Post subject: Leading vs. Check/raising
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
|
|
I sometimes play a little shorthanded LHE when clearing bonuses or just to mix things up. Do you guys find leading or check raising to be more effective? I know the answer to this questions is "it depends", but which do you find to be more effective against a majority of players? I have found that leading at a pot (whether you are bluffing or not) seems to be more effective that check raising. I tend to take down more pots without going to showdown this way. Anyone care to share what they have found to be true? I play very little LHE so my results probably mean nothing.
Also, please just link me if this topic has been exhausted.
|
The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
I've noted that check/raises tend to get called down a lot. Leading out often just takes the pot. I don't know why, psychologically, people pay it off, but they do.
|
|
|
|
ellisd
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 22
|
|
Usually leading a bet in a 3 way pot on the turn when everyone has checked on the flop does NOT win the pot in LHE. They see the check on the flop as weakness and will call the bet thinking it's a bluff. A check raise is much more effective on the turn since late position players will try to steal the pot the majority of the time. (dependent on action and pot size.)
In addition betting out on the flop is even less effective in making players fold. In early position when you can be pretty sure your opponent will bet in late position (as he will usually try to steal teh pot) when you have checked in early postion, check raise. Otherwise bet out.
Head's up is much different. Top pair on the flop is a monster and most players will call you to the river. So, bet for value to the river. No fancy stuff.
Sklansky says betting in first postion is a more effective bluff since it does not take into account other's actions. In LHE this is just not true.
So, bet for value in early position or if your 90% sure your oppenent will bet, C/R.
Bluffs simply don't work multi-way, only in special conditions.
|
|
|
|
Les_Worm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ellisd
Usually leading a bet in a 3 way pot on the turn when everyone has checked on the flop does NOT win the pot in LHE.
|
From what I've seen leading there will win you the pot more than check/raising will. I admit that my experience is limited so I may be completely wrong. Also I am talking about shorthanded LHE with 5-6 players.
|
The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
|
|
ellisd
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 22
|
|
You're right shorthanded is a much different game. People in LHE love to see your cards though, so when you check raise them they chuck a couple more bets at the pot to see the cards usually justifing it by saying "they're commited to the pot." or to "keep you honest."
|
|
|
|
jmontis
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
|
|
i do a lot of check raising in short handed games. If you know he'll bet/call down, check raise.
|
|
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
|
|
Les_Worm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
i do a lot of check raising in short handed games. If you know he'll bet/call down, check raise.
|
What I am after here is finding out which play will take more pots down without a showdown.
|
The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
|
|
outphase
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
i do a lot of check raising in short handed games. If you know he'll bet/call down, check raise.
|
What I am after here is finding out which play will take more pots down without a showdown. |
Against a thinking player, a turn check/raise tends to have more folds than leading out... from what i've seen
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
It's apparent to me that it has a lot to do with you and your opponents. It has to do with what you've shown down in the past after checkraising. In short, how does your opponent perceive your checkraise at this time? How aggressive is the opponent independantly, as effected by the table?
I was sitting at a table last night where flops were getting 4-bet heads up every time for info, and then the turn big bet was going 3-4 deep before respect was granted, since there was so much false representation going on. The table really dictated the legitimacy of any raises. It wasn't whether you check raised or not. It was how your range was being percieved by everyone.
At my table, check raises were being 3-bet back, and then the lead was being raised on the turn. I got reraised on the river by K high no less than 15 times in 4 hours when I held the winner.
So it depends. Do what works for your table. see how the opponents react to the check raise, and do the most profitable thing. Sometimes a flurry of checkraises will only incite passive players to become more aggressive, and make your decisions in the future a little tougher. Please correct me if I'm wrong Fnord. I'm sure I must be off in some areas.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
|
midas06
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
|
|
What stakes was that Rondavu?
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
$5-$10. I incited the riot single handedly I'm sure. I started playing Lagg Limit, which sounds funny in itself. I attempted to create precise reads through betting, thus allowing me to float on pairs through the opponents lowered range in their counter strategy (6-max they have no choice but to fight back with bad cards). I raised over 60% of my hands. This works way better for me than tight. Fnord will think I'm nuts, but I was killing the table by never continuing past the turn without fold equity (I never had much) or a great chance to improve, and like I said when I hit the opponents were paying me off and 3-betting into my nuts. I think the funniest one was when I flopped jacks full of fives, and some guy unloaded $60-$70 into the middle with king high 7 kicker trying to push me off until the river.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
