www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Laying down a flush (opps I did it again)

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

Fnord

03-06-2005, 01:44 AM Post subject: Laying down a flush (opps I did it again)

#1 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

MP2 is unknown
MP3 is loose/passive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 3

, 4

.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Fnord checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6

, 9

, 6

(5 players)
SB checks, Fnord checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 7

(5 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, UTG folds, MP2 raises, MP3 3-bets, SB folds, Fnord folds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

03-06-2005, 01:45 AM

#2 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I would call this down still.

Also, I might bet the flop.

Fnord

03-06-2005, 01:48 AM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

If I bet the flop I must call this down because of the larger pot.

I thought it was close, but at 3BB+ to showdown I'm not liking my chances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

ArcticKnight

03-06-2005, 05:03 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

odd that both Mp2 and MP3 checked the flop

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

RiverMonkey

03-07-2005, 12:23 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

odd that both Mp2 and MP3 checked the flop

A whole variety of holdings/variables could explain the checking.

FLOP
There may be some premium off-suit high card hands like AQ or AK, or good flush draws, or the A-of-spades+X, or pocket nines, busted 4-flush draws, str8 draws, etc, etc, or... higher flush draws, and also a possible slow-playing full house.

TURN
Fnord's holding a baby-flush which doesn't hold up to many of his opponents' likely holdings. Given the action & the board, he folded. Likely a very good laydown.

Why call down?? ... both MP2 & MP3 seem to like their hands quite a bit, let them call each other down ... save your $$, choose better spots than this to invest it.

BUT, you need to have the correct reads to say this with confidence:

o you have somewhat rational, decent opponents
o you know that they aren't tricky/aggro, bumping you off your best hands etc.) (esp. true in lower limits - what limit was it?)

Trikflow77

03-07-2005, 12:29 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: im so asian

Posts: 1,460

the real logic behind this laydown is that he is not closing the action here and is exposed to a cap plus mulitple bets on the river. I can see why he would fold here, paying a lot of bets caught up in a raising war with a low flush.

Most of the time when I lay down flushes is is because the board pairs, but I have fold a couple of times with low suited cards in situations like this.

RiverMonkey

03-07-2005, 12:40 AM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by trikflow77

Excellent points & well put!

It's a risky current-investment that also suffers from reverse implied odds.

Chicago_Kid

03-09-2005, 04:21 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...

Posts: 1,132

Also given that MP3 is L-P, a three bet on this turn would be extra scary.

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

Grand_MasterB

03-09-2005, 08:20 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Cincinnati

Posts: 466

I think its a nice laydown. If you know you are beat might as well. I once laid down an Ace high flush when the board paired on the river in a 5/10 game at FT with a pro at my table (he wasnt in the hand) to save one bet at the end. The other guy was so impressed he showed me his full house out of respect. The pro also gave me praise on my play.

limit is about saving a bet here or there while still winning pots... it all adds up

Fnord

03-09-2005, 08:27 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB

limit is about saving a bet here or there while still winning pots... it all adds up

Dropping pots to bad laydowns adds up faster. I recall a story about a cocktail waitress and a fur coat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Grand_MasterB

03-09-2005, 08:51 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Cincinnati

Posts: 466

so when i know that the other guy filled up i should still call? even though i know i am beat? i was clear that he had trips by the way the betting was between me and him the hole way. dont have the HH but it was something like this between me and him...although i believe there was one other person in preflop

Preflop:
I raise with my AJ suited
He makes it 3 bets with what i figure is a mid to high pair since he is a solid player
i call

Flop

2 small hearts and a q of another suit

he checks to me
i bet my draw (and maybe hoping him for AK but doubting it)
he raises me (now i figure him for an overpair or a set of queens)
i call trying to hit the turn

Turn... 8 of hearts
he hesitates a bit then checks
i bet my nut flush
he hesitates before deciding to call

River

Pairs one of the small hearts on the flop
Now he leads into me again
I fold

when he lead into me on the river after giving up the lead on the turn when the flush card came i knew he had me beat bc he was a very solid player

Trikflow77

03-09-2005, 08:59 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: im so asian

Posts: 1,460

No way i fold the nut flush for one bet on the river. WEAK, call it every time. fnords hand he would have had to call several bets with a low flush, which could be beat my another spade on the river/boat/higher flush. For one bet heads up dont fold the nut flush when the board pairs.

Room

03-09-2005, 09:18 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB

when he lead into me on the river after giving up the lead on the turn when the flush card came i knew he had me beat bc he was a very solid player

im never sure when im doing these math problems right, but ill give it a try and hopefully someone can correct me if im wrong.

his bet on the river puts 8 BB in the pot, you need to call 1BB to win 8. therefore you are getting 8:1 on your money. i would think you have to be about 88% sure you are beat here to lay down the nut flush. In other words, if you had to make this decision 8 times, and he beats you 7/8 times and you win 1/8 times, you will break even on this bet. so mathematically, if you feel that confident in your read, folding is correct.

(Please correct my math/thought process if its completely out of wack!)

Fnord

03-10-2005, 12:43 AM

#14 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quite often the pot is bigger than that. Particularly if you're playing a nice and fishy table. So you can be 90% sure you're beat and STILL have to pay it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

03-12-2005, 02:49 AM

#15 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

It SUCKS when this is the highlight of your session...

UTG+1 is the table idiot.
MP3 is a tight/passive fisherman among fishermen.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is UTG with J

, Q

.
Fnord calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, Fnord calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 5

, 3

, 4

(8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Fnord bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, SB folds, BB calls, Fnord 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) 5

(4 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, UTG+1 raises, MP3 3-bets, BB folds, Fnord folds, UTG+1 caps, MP3 calls.

River: (23.50 BB) T

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

03-12-2005, 03:30 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

But you had an inside straight draw too!

Fnord

03-15-2005, 01:01 PM

#17 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Results:
Hand 1: MP2 had A

MP3 had T

Hand 2: UTG+1 had 5

MP3 had 3

Laydowns hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:37 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

Laying down a flush (opps I did it again)

Play for FREE and practice your game at...