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Jibalob
Old 11-01-2007, 02:30 AM     Post subject: Lame.... #1 (permalink)  
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Button has shown some ridiculous bluffs on all streets over the past 20 or so hands, not just your typical monkey checked to monkey bet stuff but also trying to represent slow-plays with air etc. He appears to have been on tilt for some time but seems to be calming down. He is 56.5/13/3.7 over 200 hands.

Sb is new to the table so I assume Tight-weak until shown otherwise:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K.
3 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 4, K, K (3 players)

Final Pot: 3 BB

Edit: the HH is all screwed up but sb checked, I bet and both villains folded

I was thinking about slowplaying but thought that raising the BB and then checking a flop like this would look too suspicious and I was better off just betting out and praying for some action from either a flush draw or a bluff from the button.

What do you think? Wth hindsight I'm kicking myself for not checking here but is it really the right thing to do in most cases?
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DrivingDog
Old 11-01-2007, 05:38 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Given that they both limped and you raised (which i liked) you can't expect them to have much. With a lot of luck one will have a FD (but don't count on it) or a decent pp (even less likely) and give you some action. But really what are they going to do? Call with QJ? Raise with 22? Maybe the maniac guy will but after getting spanked a few times even these guys tend to slow down.

I think in general when you're the lone preflop aggressor and hit an unbeatable hand you might as well slowplay. Checking is pretty suspicious especially if you normally c-bet almost 100% of the time but at least it gives them a chance to think they have a chance. I've even waited until the river sometimes just so someone could catch a pair.

The only real danger is that someone else could have a big hand and decide to slowplay as well but they'd need precisely 44 for that to be the case here, and even if they had it they might bet out if it's checked to them hoping you're slowplaying AK or something.
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arborman
Old 11-01-2007, 05:44 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I've bet out and had everyone fold often enough that it is worth checking and hoping someone hits something they like on the turn or even the river. Nobody is going to beat your quad kings.

If they check around again on turn, you at least have a chance of them looking up your river bet on suspicion you are bluffing.

I know in their shoes I tend to lock down with a flop like that, but if there is no action and I have some kind of showdown hand (like another pp or a flush) I'll often bet on turn or river, with the expectation of folding if I run into any resistance.
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Jibalob
Old 11-01-2007, 11:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Meh, I thought I'd get responses like these, I think I knew I should have slowplayed but I thought there was more chance of someone calling a $5 bet on the flop (and hopefully getting married to the hand) than a $10 bet on the turn.

I suppose it doesnt really matter too much, I could cap every street and fold the river out of turn every time I had quads without it really affecting my long term winrate.
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KoRnholio
Old 11-01-2007, 11:32 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I usually bet out since that is what I would do with pretty much any other hand that I raised with PF (AQ+/any pp, etc). Although checking to see if the button will bet our hand has it's perks, even if he won't do it every time.
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snowboard_31
Old 11-01-2007, 11:45 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Dont worry Jibalob I would bet out too. True you have a unbeatable monster, but at the same time i think this is where your cbet % comes into play. If you cbet alot then someone will look u up with maybe even ace high here, especially if he wants to try and bluff raise u out later like the button.

I think its possible to make a case for both but I think A4, AQ, AJ,or a flush draw might peel one off or play back if they think its just a cbet. Then you can check to them on the turn to show weakness and take some more, or if it seems a flush hits then keep betting and maybe get paid off good.
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Knytestorme
Old 11-02-2007, 07:58 AM #7 (permalink)  
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From my perspective (mainly the way I play at NL but would do the same here), I'd have slowplayed here for one reason...you know they don't have AA pre since it wasn't capped.

Since you have the KK the best they can hold is QQ and you as the pre raiser leading out into that with one to act shows you aren't scared of it so at worst you already have AK and they are drawing to runner-runner.

Checking here lets the guy behind you try to bluff at it (and there I'd just call) or lets a weaker hand such as QQ/JJ, nut flush draw etc catch up or even think you may be scared of the kings with something like AJ and so bluff on the turn.

I'd check on the turn as well, probably c/r if someone bets and hope they really do have something big and if it checks around then lead at the river if sb checks.

In this case the board is so scary that you may as well let them bet into you and take what you can that way rather than scare them off on the cheap streets.
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Hermann the Lombard
Old 11-02-2007, 06:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I had AA on the button, raised PF and six of them called. Flop had AAx and it was checked to me. I bet and all six folded. <urp> Next time--if there is one--I'll check and hope.
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arborman
Old 11-02-2007, 07:11 PM #9 (permalink)  
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That is the trouble with the killer hands. You practically have to pray that someone has 44, or someone hits the turn or river enough to give some action.

That's also why marginal hands, when I play them well, make up a fair amount of my profits (such as they are).
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Ragnar4
Old 11-03-2007, 06:51 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Uhh.. You hold all the outs to a nuklear hand..... of course no-one called.

You don't have any choice other than to slowplay and pray that someone catches up.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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