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Hermann the Lombard
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09-23-2007, 06:47 AM
Post subject: KQo vs 2 bets cold
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with  ,  .
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero...
Not only two bets cold, but an overcall at that. My thought is KQs yes, KQo no.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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fold. Suited = still fold.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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KQs yes, KQo no.
The problem is not so much that it's an overcall. This is preflop so overcalls aren't as bad in principle and should be entertained with hands with large implied odds. The problem with KQ0 is it's a potentially dominated, offsuit hand that doesn't play well multiway. You can flop top pair with this hand and still be behind, or be ahead and be drawn out on by someone with a SD or FD, or someone who makes two pair. Same goes for KQs, but that hand has the advantage of also being able to flop a FD where if you make it, you're almost certainly going to have the best hand in a big pot.
E.g., flop comes AhQs7h. With KhQd you pretty much have to hope to hit two pair or better, and hope that the card that improves you doesn't improve someone else even more. So it's tough to know how to play with certain action. With KhQh on the other hand, any heart makes you the nuts, so you can pretty easily decide to stay in the pot even with heavy action.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
fold. Suited = still fold.
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Against this bunch i'd be tempted to call with KQo (but wouldn't). KQs i am definitely in this hand.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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really depends on who did the raising and the donkiness of the players that cold called. If the guy that raised is a tight ass then i would fold. On the other hand if he is aggressive and the cold callers are bad post flop then a call isn't so bad but i would still fold. Basically the worse they are post flop the less of a mistake a pf call would be
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
really depends on who did the raising and the donkiness of the players that cold called.
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Uh, this is .05/.10 ...the donkiness of the players is not in question (no offense HTL).
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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No offense taken. At this stage I'm donky myself but not planning to stay that way. Based on small sample sizes (about 35 hands) UTG is a gambler (53/12/0.6), UTG+1 is a calling station (29/3/0.8) and UTG+2 is a fish (67/3/0.6). Donky enough for you? Anyway, that means that UTG's PFR range is pretty wide and the others are apt to be just along for the ride.
Of course the results aren't relevant, but for the trivial record there was one caller behind me, I missed the flop completely and I bailed rather than cold call after UTG bet and was called twice to me.
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