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acezrez
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05-13-2006, 11:09 PM
Post subject: KQo in the sb
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , K . UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.
Flop: (6 SB) 7, J , K (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.
Turn: (5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.
River: (7 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 9 BB
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Shark Bait
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
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Interesting line on the flop. I can't say I agree with it, I would just bet out. Although I can understand why with 6 players in the hand, top pair isn't going to win it. I would have bet the river too though.
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<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
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acezrez
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
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I was hoping some one would bet at it from late position , that way i could raise like I did making everyone else have to call 2 bets
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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The check-raise on the flop makes good sense to me. There's a strong chance someone has at least a gutshot (or bottom or middle pair, or just feels like betting), so hoping for a late bet in order to raise and make the cost of continuing to those hands prohibitive looks right. Your bet on the turn also makes sense. Though you don't mention the eventuality you'll probably want to fold if raised--a raise would likely be legitimate (Aces up or better) given you've shown strength twice. As you were just called on the turn (my experience is that most players will raise if the Ace gives them two pair), a value bet on the river might be in order. It's surprising how often people will call to the end with bottom pair, middle pair, second or third pair, or K with a modest kicker, even after a betting sequence such as yours. It probably comes down to this: given that you weren't raised on the turn, you may well get called on the river by a weaker hand, one that would only check if you check. Given all that and the actual sequence, I'd assume you were beaten. It's hard to imagine villain will bet the river with a weaker hand than yours.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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With an unraised pot, it's not guaranteed someone will bet for you to raise, therefore you may give up value instead of getting it, and may also give free cards
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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This is standard IMO. If this doesnt scream SSH or another other sklansky book then I don't know what does.
This is pretty much a perfect representation to what to do. Awesome job man (Seriously).
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
This is standard IMO. If this doesnt scream SSH or another other sklansky book then I don't know what does.
This is pretty much a perfect representation to what to do. Awesome job man (Seriously). |
You don't think a river bet is a good idea? I would play this exactly the same until the river, but I usually would follow-up with a river bet. I would think that Kx and Jx will frequntly make a crying call, but will not bet when you check, so you win more when ahead. And several hands that beat you (namely Ax) will not raise, but will bet when you check. So you don't usually lose more when behind.
This could be the LAG in me speaking though.
Also, I guess by checking you might induce a bluff from a busted straight or flush draw, so I dunno.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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I like each street.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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If he didn't raise the turn, he's probably not raising the river. While I doubt you missed a bet in this case, you easily could have.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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The river check is read dependent, if he's aggressive i'd go ahead and check/call him as he may bet a busted gutshot or flush draw here. I'm not really worried about the Ace but missing a bet on this river isn't nearly as bad as we lead on. But, he didn't and i just like his flop play (which is all i paid attention in my first analysis in my defense  ).
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
With an unraised pot, it's not guaranteed someone will bet for you to raise, therefore you may give up value instead of getting it, and may also give free cards
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This is a possibilty, but I think it's a small possibility, and one outweighed by the benefits accruing to a check-raise. With two neighborly broadway cards on the flop and five opponents in what rates to be a loose game (we've all probably played a lot of 200+ hand sessions without once having six people see the flop), the kind of game where it's almost automatic for the passout seat to bet after five checks should it go that far, my experience tells me it's very unlikely to go all check here. That said, a free card of course could cost the pot though, again, I believe that's a very small chance, perehaps in the neighborhood of 10%.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I like the check-raise here. Unless the opponenets are super-passive, it's a great way to protect your hand. Even if it does get checked around (a mini-disaster), you'll often get paid off by people for a couple big bets on the turn and river because people assume you don't have a king.
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