Originally Posted by dranger7070

2nd hand: Villain had J4 right?

Originally Posted by asdpikas

A2? 67?

let me tell you, these ppl are your best friends, and they are all the way up to 3/6 - 5/10

Originally Posted by Airles™

This is why I go through stretches of break-even poker because I can't lay this down when I KNOW I AM BEAT.

Originally Posted by asdpikas

Final Pot: 7.5 BB
SB shows:
Hero shows:

SB wins 7.2 BB ( won +3.7 BB )
Hero lost 3.5 BB

Originally Posted by Airles™

Even in this case, he limp/called a preflop cap then went nuts on the flop/turn. To me this screams set, as it should. So why do I not fold the turn? I don't have the odds to chase a river 2-outer and it's blatantly obvious this passive flounder hit something big.

Originally Posted by asdpikas

from today:

3/6 Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($113.00)
UTG+1 ($170.50)
Hero (CO) ($179.00)
BTN ($410.00)
SB ($216.50)
BB ($73.50)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 6 players) Hero is CO
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold

Flop: (5.0 SB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

Turn: (3.5 BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

River: (5.5 BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls

Final Pot: 7.5 BB
SB shows:
Hero shows:

SB wins 7.2 BB ( won +3.7 BB )
Hero lost 3.5 BB

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

Then you'll make a fine limit player.

The reality is that you don't *know* you are beat. You have scraps of evidence that add up to tell a story. In the case of Hand 2 on the river, if c/c is your line, you only have to be right and win the pot 4% of the time to break even. You never have enough evidence to be more than 96% sure, so you play on, your decision made much easier by the fact that one player is all-in*.

That said, I think you went wrong on the Turn. Sandwiched between two opps, raising the SB's lead bet is a better play, imo. If you're beat, you almost want the MP to 3-bet and the SB to cap, as you can then safely get away from your hand when it is two big bets back to you. But raising also changes the dynamic of the hand as you continue to show aggression and can see how your opps respond. You hope they respond by slowing down and have exerted your maximum effort to get them to do that by raising.

Back to the river though, and also when heads-up on the turn, you will call down a lot more in limit and a significant amount more in 6-max than FR. Some of the times you're calling down, you will feel like a donkey, but mathematically, it is often the correct play. All you can do is learn the math, ignore the swings, and trust it will all turn out in your favor in the end.

* - Players who are short-stacked enough to go all-in in limit are moronic. You'll often find, absent any other reads, that this is indicative of a loose-aggro spewmonkey, who feels that his only move is to try and get all his money in in an effort to 1) push people off a hand, 2) call upon the poker gods for lottery type luck. These guys are showing down T8o as often as they are showing down a quality hand. I'm sure that isn't the case here or you wouldn't be posting it, but you'll see this over time.

Originally Posted by LawDude

The only thing I would differ is that I can't say I am really a fan of the reasoning that says "I am only 96 percent sure that I am beat and the pot is so big that I better stay in

Originally Posted by cliff67

i hate kk. i get burnt with kk 90 percent of the time

Originally Posted by cliff67

i hate kk. i get burnt with kk 90 percent of the time not by AA but by someone staying with 5-7 and hitting a straight or flush. what can i say kk is hard to fold.