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KK poker hand review please
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heatman
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04-26-2004, 11:31 AM
Post subject: KK poker hand review please
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 312
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I played about 30 hours of live table poker this weekend and most of it is a blur, but I just can't let go of two hands - I had KK both times.
Game structure is $4/8$ limit. The game was loose (5+ callers every hand), and I'd been playing for about 7 hours with pretty much the same people. I'm mid position with KK and raise. Button, SB call. BB re-raises, UG folds. I re-raise and everyone calls (thats right, four of us in a capped pot). I'm thinking BB has either AA, QQ, JJ or the other cowboys.
Flop comes AKc8c rainbow. I've got my set. The pots pretty big so I'm sticking around, but the possibility of AA is worrisome. BB bets and I call, button calls and SB folds. Turn is a 6c which I figure made Button's flush draw. Same story, BB bets, call, call.
River pairs up the 6 and BB CHECKS! Thinking he's looking to check-raise, I check and, get this, Button bets. Now BB raises and I'm facing a double bet. I call because the pot is huge. Button calls. BB show pocket 8s (8s full of 6s), I flip over my cowboys (Ks full of sixes - woo hoo!) and button gets all pissed off and throws his cards across the table. He and BB start grossing about my bad play. "Why'd you stop betting??, Put you on AK, blah blah."
What should I have done better? I thought I played reasonably well, given the possibilities, but maybe another raise early on would have given me more info? These guys were genuinely mad, I think, so I'd like to know what the site thinks.
About an hour later, I get Kings again, and almost the same pre-flop action happens. This time the flop is QdJh3h. Now I'm worried about AA, QQ or JJ. Since either the Aces or the sets can beat me, I bet for information before the turn and button re-raises (same guy as before). One early player (not the BB from the hand above) and I call. I was seriously considering a lay down, but with button always looking for a flush draw, I stayed. Turn is a rag, Early checks, I check and button checks - now I know he's on a flush draw. River is the Kh, so I make my set, but button makes his flush. I check and fold to button's bet. He shows his flush and I realize I let him have two free cards to make it.
I know I screwed the second hand up, but I'm not sure I can raise the flop or bet the turn in that position. Correct play would have been to make the sucker pay for his flush draw, but I'm pretty sure he was in with a four flush no matter the price. Any suggestions?
Thanks for this site, sure is a good place to see what everyone else thinks.
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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You already know that you screwed the second hand up. Lesson learned. Hell, on PP NL an all in bet does not get rid of flush draws as i've repeatedly learned recently (but that's another story).
I think you played the first hand right. Very hard to lay down a set of K even if you think you're up agains AA, which was unlikely given the lose play at the table. I think it was smart to slow down on the river because you did not have the absolute nuts and pot was big enough. Probably should have re-raised on the turn to find out where you were, but the set of 8 would have probably capped it anyway.
As for the complainers, F them. Smile and ignore them. It is the worst of manners to criticize play of others or yell at dealer. Move to another table and tell them thanks for the donation.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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Fnord
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05-06-2004, 02:04 PM
Post subject: Re: KK hand review please
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#3 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Post #400
Why are you playing scared with these idiots? Look in the mirror and say "raise". Keep doing it until it becomes second nature.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by heatman
Flop comes AKc8c rainbow. I've got my set. The pots pretty big so I'm sticking around, but the possibility of AA is worrisome. BB bets and I call, button calls and SB folds. Turn is a 6c which I figure made Button's flush draw. Same story, BB bets, call, call.
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2 clubs isn't a rainbow, but I like the play here. Don't give away your hand on the flop waiting for the big bets to come out.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by heatman
River pairs up the 6 and BB CHECKS! Thinking he's looking to check-raise, I check and, get this, Button bets. Now BB raises and I'm facing a double bet. I call because the pot is huge. Button calls. BB show pocket 8s (8s full of 6s), I flip over my cowboys (Ks full of sixes - woo hoo!) and button gets all pissed off and throws his cards across the table. He and BB start grossing about my bad play. "Why'd you stop betting??, Put you on AK, blah blah."
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Here is where you lost value. If AA is out, you're paying him off. Stop worrying about the monster under the bed. I bet here and HOPE the the BB is going to check-raise so I can 3-bet it then pray to the poker gods the flush will cap it. Once you checked, I think you got to 3-bet it, since the overcall is only likely to get you 1 big bet anyway so nothing is lost if the BB folds.
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Originally Posted by heatman
About an hour later, I get Kings again, and almost the same pre-flop action happens. This time the flop is QdJh3h. Now I'm worried about AA, QQ or JJ. Since either the Aces or the sets can beat me, I bet for information before the turn and button re-raises (same guy as before). One early player (not the BB from the hand above) and I call. I was seriously considering a lay down, but with button always looking for a flush draw, I stayed.
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Calling the _raise_ on the flop wasn't your best play here since your hand is too weak to trap. Either you got the best hand or you don't, re-raise or fold. Then see what kind of information you get *cackle* Your Kings aren't likely a huge favorite and the pot is big, so scaring off a player hanging around with a random pair is probably +EV.
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Originally Posted by heatman
Turn is a rag, Early checks, I check and button checks - now I know he's on a flush draw.
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Yup, you muffed this one up and paid off his flop raise by giving him a free card.
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Originally Posted by heatman
River is the Kh, so I make my set, but button makes his flush. I check and fold to button's bet. He shows his flush and I realize I let him have two free cards to make it.
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I call the bet here unless I'm 99% sure he's got the goods, with that pot he's got to show you a hand. If he has 2 pair or top pair 1 out of 10 times it's profit.
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heatman
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 312
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Great advice. Thanks.
This, and my post on the tourney subject, have me thinking I may be playing scared at times. I've got some thinking to do.
Didn't help that this was my first try in a casino, and that its limit. I'm much more comfortable playing NL. I know I can make them pay to see that flush draw through in NL, but its hard to bet some of these guys out, even on the 4/8 table.
I'm giving it another try at the same place this weekend. Alot of the guys in that game are regulars, so we'll see what I've learned!
Thanks again.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by heatman
Didn't help that this was my first try in a casino, and that its limit. I'm much more comfortable playing NL. I know I can make them pay to see that flush draw through in NL, but its hard to bet some of these guys out, even on the 4/8 table.
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Then value bet/raise them to death. Make them suffer. ...and don't fall for that stupid raise with a draw trick on the flop. Re-raise a couple times and they'll get the picture.
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