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SmackinYaUp

03-22-2005, 09:44 PM Post subject: Kill game strategies

#1 (permalink)

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http://www.winningonlinepoker.com/articles.htm

"How does strategy change during a kill game?

Though strategy remains the same for the most part in a kill game, there are some adjustments you should make to be playing optimally. Let's assume you're in a 2/4 hold 'em game. Since it is obviously a disadvantage to be posting a $4 blind on the next hand, you should go slightly out of your way to avoid winning two pots in a row. So if you won the last pot and now have a close decision whether to play or fold, lean towards folding. For example, if you have won the last pot, and now someone raises and you have A-Q offsuit, a hand that is marginally worth a call against most opponents, you should probably fold, because you will have to post a $4 blind next hand if you win the pot. Make sure that you only make this adjustment on decisions that are otherwise close, but take it into account."

I can understand the authors saying to avoid marginal situations, but I do not see any way possible it is good to go out of your way at all to lose a pot. If you miss a pot you could have won then you have lost more than that double blind would have cost. As far as this paragraph goes, I really dont see the point of changing your strategy.

On the other hand AQo is a marginal hand to begin with, so maybe the added cost of the double blind (the few times you win) over the long run will hurt your EV with the hand. But still...going out of your way to lose a pot? Maybe its just the wording I dont like.

I know that the author said to only take this into consideration when making close decisions so maybe I am just being difficult.

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ChezJ

03-22-2005, 10:25 PM

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my philosophy on kill pots is this. at a regular game of say $2/$4, you are playing enough hands that short term variances (e.g. from missing your draws or missing the flop with AQ after your raise pre flop) even themselves out.

but in the kill hands, where the betting doubles to $4/$8, you do not have the luxury of playing many hands at that level. so you cannot be as risk tolerant. if someone raises pre flop and makes it $8 to see a flop, i will dump AQo in a heartbeat. i would rather see 4 flops for $2 apiece than 1 flop that i am not likely to hit, and that may ruin me if i do hit.

lots of people who crave action love kill pots and play looser when the kill button is activated. i play 2x tighter because it is incredibly damaging to your bankroll when you play a kill pot all the way to showdown and lose.

so i only play raising hands when i'm in a kill pot. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, AK, AQs, AJs. i don't play suited connectors or AXs's because they are too speculative and require multiway action, which is not assured in kill situations. if it is folded to me, i'll raise with medium or even low pocket pairs. the idea is i want to make it extremely expensive for people to enter the pot, so that my hands can win unimproved and don't get sucked out on. if they call me, they do so at their own peril.

that's how i play kill pots. i never read any books about it or anything. this is just based on personal experience.

i am very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this subject.

ChezJ

Manomanman

03-22-2005, 10:47 PM

#3 (permalink)

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I highly recommend not playing in games with a kill. The ultimate reason is that it favors bad players and is meant to force players who win more pots to "give some of it back."

The simple reason is this: the guy who wins the most pots is going to be in a blind more often than other players. He is going to have big hands firing away at his kill blind every time he's in the kill blind, in essence, forcing him to dump off $4 worth of profit from every pot he wins. It's just like an extra rake.

Casinos love to spread kill games because it builds bigger pots, and it prevents sharks from tearing games apart as quickly as they might. Through proper strategy, they can be mitigated, but they still add ridiculous fluctuation to a bankroll which keeps sharks away.

Fnord

03-22-2005, 10:53 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Moved to limit. Never heard of a NL kill game...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manomanman

I highly recommend not playing in games with a kill. The ultimate reason is that it favors bad players and is meant to force players who win more pots to "give some of it back."

Wrong. Who's more likely to generate a kill pot the TAgg or the fish?

Who benefits more from lower relative blinds and more money going in post-flop?

Yes, the variance goes up though.

The weird thing I found with kill games is that you have to consider the kill when picking up small pots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

03-22-2005, 11:05 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

it prevents sharks from tearing games apart as quickly as they might.

I play $6/$12 kill every weekend.
This is by far my most profitable game. I use it to fund my forays into 20/40.
Kill games are OUTSTANDING for agressive players. I used to play tighter during a kill because I feared the variance, but the truth is, the limits just jumped to a level most players are no longer comfortable with. When you can raise to $24 pre flop against a game that is used to a $6 limp, you thin the field a bit. When a player flops top pair with a marginal kicker, and knows you are going to make him pay at least another $72 to go to the showdown, a lot of players will lay it down. They are afraid of the variance.
I don't reccomend playing looser during a kill pot, but definitely much more agressive.
Also, why would you fear a blind post? You won the pot, it is a live blind. It is not being stolen from you by the casino. Giving up winning a pot is far worse than posting blind after you just won 2 pots.

RiverMonkey

03-23-2005, 05:02 PM Post subject: Re: Kill game strategies

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Since it is obviously a disadvantage to be posting a $4 blind on the next hand, you should go slightly out of your way to avoid winning two pots in a row.

Avoid winning pots? That's crazy talk.

If you have the best of it in a pot don't give it away to someone else because you are worried about getting the kill button.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting.

Are you saying that in a kill pot you should tighten up pre-flop to avoid variance?

Or, are you saying that if a (non-kill) pot is small, you just won the previous pot, you have a marginal holding so your edge is small AND you would have to post one of the more expensive blinds on the next hand (the kill pot) then you should lean towards folding?

I can agree with both of these.

Tripps7

03-23-2005, 05:37 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

When a player flops top pair with a marginal kicker, and knows you are going to make him pay at least another $72 to go to the showdown, a lot of players will lay it down.

This is the guy you want in the pot, not out.

I generally don't play kill games. I find very few small stakes game that doesn't have enough action. If it's too tight I just find another table. I think Straddling is just stupid also. Needless gambling...

SmackinYaUp

03-23-2005, 07:40 PM Post subject: Re: Kill game strategies

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Since it is obviously a disadvantage to be posting a $4 blind on the next hand, you should go slightly out of your way to avoid winning two pots in a row.

Avoid winning pots? That's crazy talk.

No no, that was not me saying that you should give up the best of it, I was quoting an article that claimed that. I was looking for someone to interpret what sounded like crazy talk to me.

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