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The Kill Button is Turning Me into a Complete Wuss

  
 
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StageWhisper
Old 11-17-2006, 07:32 PM     Post subject: The Kill Button is Turning Me into a Complete Wuss #1 (permalink)  
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I play limit so that I don't have to risk my whole stack on one hand. Thus my total aversion to the kill button.

(The kill button is applied when a player wins 2 pots over a certain amount. That player has to post a forced blind of double the normal big blind, and the stakes double for that hand.)

Last night, 3/6 limit with the kill on. (6/12 now)
9 handed

I'm sitting at $140, the first time I've been up all night since getting crushed in my first two hands.

I'm in the BB with 8d9d.

5 limp in
Kevin, a laggy and tricky player in LP raises
CO calls
SB calls
I call

Pot $108

Flop is Kh 10h 6c

SB bets $6
I fold my gut shot

Here's what's going through my wussy, ass backwards head:

I know I should call. The pot is huge, implied odds are huge. I know everyone behind me is going to call, but I also know Kevin is going to raise, whether he made a hand or not. Since everyone is in the pot, I'm going to assume that someone is holding two hearts, so the 7h is no good.

It's about 2am and the table is close to breaking up, so just not playing this hand will keep me comfortably up for the night. Keep in mind that I'm a recreational player right now - I don't keep a bankroll, I just play what I can afford and winnings generally go to other things, so I'd rather have a winning night than saying I did the right thing.

I decided to fold here because if I did call I knew I would call any turn bets too - the pot would just be too ridiculous to fold. That's $24+ that I just don't want to spend fishing for a 3 outer, pot be damned.

The thing is, if this was a normal 3/6 there is no way in hell I would do this. The kill button just makes me weak. I wrote another post about folding QQ in a kill pot on the turn to a raise (from my damned husband) on a K high board. My hand requirements go way up just to enter a kill pot. This might be a bit psychological, as the first time I played a live game I lost $150 on a 4/8 (8/16) kill pot with JJ against someone who made a bd flush with 4c8c (you can tell it was traumatizing for me since I still remember her hand).

Am I the biggest pussy in the world? Is there anyone else out there who routinely plays a game with full kill? Does it affect your play?
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outphase
Old 11-18-2006, 12:15 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Well, even with a 3 outer, your odds are still there. Implied odds are correct even for a 3 outer on the flop. I'd even go as far as saying the immediate odds are close.

Also, if you are being re-raised on the turn, that says you had raised yourself. (re-raise follows from bet, raise, re-raise, cap). Raising the turn with less than TP will lead you astray in looser games.

You're letting past outcomes affect your own.

side note: your JJ v 48s hand is remarkably similar to this: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-46596.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
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StageWhisper
Old 11-18-2006, 01:57 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I absolutely realize that I had odds to call - my point was that the forced double stake makes my play less than optimal.

You are right about the QQ hand, I'll edit that post to say raised, rather than re-raised.

The hand with JJ was nothing like the one you pointed out (though I see why you linked it). This was another Family Kill Pot special, and she called 3 bets cold on the flop with no pair and just a bd flush draw. It was not a thinking opponent taking advantage of my tightness and/or predictability.
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Ragnar4
Old 11-18-2006, 04:23 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Look man

I understand that you're a recreational player. But you need to think of poker not as the amount of money going into the pot, but in the thought process of small bets and big bets and math. If the math tells you, that you make what should be the best hand, and the amount of money you're paying bigbets/small bets is justifyable. Then you should, by all means, call, amount of money be damned.

I understand where you are though. I've foldede an up and down straight flush draw to the nuts simply because I was just barely up, and I"d been missing draws all night. Much to my horror, the card that brought the flush also brought a set over an existing set. I pissed away a 300 dollar hand because of the donating idiot. Because I was scared in my 3/6 kill game that I would walk away down.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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StageWhisper
Old 11-18-2006, 07:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I pissed away a 300 dollar hand because of the donating idiot. Because I was scared in my 3/6 kill game that I would walk away down.
Of course, I obviously wouldn't have posted this if I hadn't hit my hand. A $250+ pot gone because the kill button makes me pee my pants.

The turn is a 7s and an old asain lady scoops this pot with a pair of 7s.

Obviously, I feel like an idiot.
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Xanadu
Old 11-18-2006, 04:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Just an interesting side note. I plugged the hand into pokerstove, and on the flop, against 8 random hands your gutshot is only 11.3% compared with a hair under 11.1% for the others. Your hand was only the value of 2.3 outs. Basically you only gave up your share of the existing pot, which is 1BB. But we all know 1BB is a pretty big mistake in limit. But it probably isn't nearly as bad as you think.
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StageWhisper
Old 11-18-2006, 06:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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That makes me feel a little better. Thanks.
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