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Kamikaze on My Left. Good?

  
 
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Manomanman
Old 07-23-2004, 11:57 AM     Post subject: Kamikaze on My Left. Good? #1 (permalink)  
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I just got done getting my ass creamed for eighty bucks at another 2/4 B&M limit game. Yes, I lost to bad beats, but that's neither here nor there.

My primary strategy, given no kamikaze, is to wait for strong hands based on position and pot size, and then play to the nuts, raising when I've got the best of it or nuts.

However, tonight there was a kamikaze I had the WONDERFUL privilige of sitting to the right of (i.e. I acted before him on every hand.) I picked up JJ twice in a row, limped in, he raised over me, then I reraise and he caps...I win with my JJ on a flop of KQx!!!

Anyways, just wanted to know which side of the kamikaze you like being on. (I'm figuring that acting before him doesn't work well because you lose two things by limping a lot preflop: #1 is a chance to raise on a strong hand (he could simply fold), and #2 is the ability to play strong drawing hands, perhaps J 10s, or pp's,for a single bet.)

However, if you know that the kamikaze will help you cap it 100% of the time you limp (preflop), is this not a quick and easy way to prevent "schooling"?

Question 2 is, do you guys like having a kamize at the table at all (from a strictly microlimit point of view)? (Btw, this kamikaze ran lucky on two big pots, but eventually gave back everything and then some...at my expense when I flop a set and Mr. Nofoldem to my right is pot committed to a flush draw.)
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Manomanman
Old 07-23-2004, 12:08 PM #2 (permalink)  
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The "play it straight up (don't bluff, tighten up preflop)" strategy worked in Vegas at an 8 man game...boy those calling stations didn't outdraw my full houses for some reason. I got up $150 playing this strat.

Question 3: Is this an optimal strat given table conditions (1 kamikaze, 4 calling station/chasers, and 4 tight-weak....basically a standard B&M setup.)
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Manomanman
Old 07-23-2004, 12:10 PM #3 (permalink)  
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And one more piece to the puzzle. Every time the kamikaze was bluffing, he kind of bobbed his head down when he threw the chips in (kinda like a chicken I guess).

Given his bluff was transparent, where would you want to be?
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Toasty
Old 07-23-2004, 12:15 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I'm trying to avoid maniacs on PP these days, I don't think you have much choice in a casino. The reason I avoid them is they push your variance through the roof and it can be frustrating when they suck out on you a bunch and then up and leave with your money.

Sitting on either side has its advantages:

On the Right.
You can get to heads up easier by betting knowing he will raise forcing people to call 2 cold.

If you have a strong hand you can check, knowing he will bet and check raise.

On the left.
You can always fold before he makes it two bets pf without a worthwhile CCing hand.

When he bets you can raise to isolate him.

Thats it off the top of my head, I've never played in a live game, no holdem games anywhere near where i live

But I've heard that super tight play in the casinos does quite well if you are looking for a steady win rate.

With his transparent Bluff deff on his left, you can raise everytime he bluffs for an easy pot and fold the times he doesn't show his tell when you don't have the goods.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
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Manomanman
Old 07-23-2004, 12:22 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Toasty, I think you've hit on perhaps one of the most fundamental differences between B&M and online...table stakes. In live action, kamikazes may scrape a few big pots an hour (esp. when they have chips) but other than that nobody puts up with their crap, cause they figure it out too quickly.

Online, it's very difficult to maintain a stable strategy because the "fighting fish" can hit'n run. Kamikaze may be a decent strategy.

BTW, I lost a good chunk of my buyin to PP a couple years ago to Kamikazes. I made a hundred bucks off of them, and lost it all back in a matter of a couple of days. (I think it's the tilt that really kills you, not the occassional loss.)
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Manomanman
Old 07-23-2004, 12:28 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Ok, last point...playing super tightly in these casinos isn't bad for the purposes of table image...microlimit players aren't paying attention. I think waiting for strong hands in a -EV situation given the number of pots you can enter where you're on the button with medium suited connector, etc. etc. The advantage you have in these situations is that you can safely muck on the flop if it whiffs...not so easy with AK on any flop, turn, or river where you land top pair. And you're getting great odds to see your draw, every time.
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Toasty
Old 07-23-2004, 12:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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If the game is passive with very little PF raiseing then its going to be always worth taking a peak with suited connectors and low PPs.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
 
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koolmoe
Old 07-23-2004, 01:26 PM #8 (permalink)  
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With a maniac on your left, be a little more selective with starting hands, and be willing to check and call him down with weaker holdings (second pair will often be enough). Check raise your stronger hands (TPTK can be a strong hand against a maniac).

Fnord had a great post about checking and calling a short time ago.
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fishstick
Old 07-23-2004, 05:34 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manomanman
And one more piece to the puzzle. Every time the kamikaze was bluffing, he kind of bobbed his head down when he threw the chips in (kinda like a chicken I guess).

Given his bluff was transparent, where would you want to be?
kool and toasty said it all - i just had to post because the bluffing chicken man just cracks me up!
i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 08-18-2004, 05:03 PM     Post subject: Dealing with maniac #10 (permalink)  
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Had a maniac situation the other day on $25NL cash on Party.

Over a series of maybe 50 hands. This guy was throwing $$ around and talking big smack, generally making for a volatile game. Among other things, his seriously flawed approach included going all-in about every 10 hands--and sometimes upon request--and playfully talking smack when he scared everyone out, or leured in an overcard caller who didn't hit.

I waited this guy out, and finally got my AA on the button with the maniac UTG. Answering my prayers, he pushed all-in with 10's pre-flop and I followed with my AA (of course), only to lose my profits to a FLUSH. It was ridiculous and horrible having to listen to his incessant howlings.

What can you all learn from this? Nothing...just do what I did.
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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Krapp
Old 08-18-2004, 06:19 PM #11 (permalink)  
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(1)You always want the maniac to your right.
(2)Actually you always want any player to your right

Acting last has significant advantages
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Fnord
Old 08-18-2004, 06:27 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krapp
(2)Actually you always want any player to your right
I want a boring rock-tight, passive player on my left.

1) You get the button more often
2) You can safely slow down or fold when he calls/raises
3) You can steal profitably without needing to act after him (see #2)
4) You can steal his blinds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 08-18-2004, 06:34 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
With a maniac on your left, be a little more selective with starting hands, and be willing to check and call him down with weaker holdings (second pair will often be enough). Check raise your stronger hands (TPTK can be a strong hand against a maniac).

Fnord had a great post about checking and calling a short time ago.
Anti-manaic play with him on your left is tough. Unless the table is otherwise ripe, I'm looking for another seat or another table.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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