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K9s and a kind of weird calldown

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TylerK

06-26-2005, 01:51 PM Post subject: K9s and a kind of weird calldown

#1 (permalink)

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I felt funny doing this, but I had the feeling that one of us was drawing to 2 or 3 outs. I just wasn't sure who. Is this a decent WA/WB calldown? It felt wrong when I was doing it but the more I look at it the more I like it.

Villain seems pretty LAgg, not enough hands on him to confirm though.

I remember originally planning to pop him on a non-spade turn card if MP3 folded, but I don't know why I clicked into this call/call mode instead.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, 9

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6

, 7

, K

(5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q

(3 players)
BB bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

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Nehmer

06-26-2005, 02:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I raise the flop. He could easily just be on a flush draw or be making a continuation bet with something like AQ or QQ. It's a fairly good flop for you so no reason to start being passive

TylerK

06-26-2005, 02:30 PM

#3 (permalink)

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If he is on a draw, doesn't he have odds to call if I raise the flop, but not on the turn if a safe card falls and I raise?

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

|~|ypermegachi

06-26-2005, 05:26 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehmer

I raise the flop. He could easily just be on a flush draw or be making a continuation bet with something like AQ or QQ. It's a fairly good flop for you so no reason to start being passive

is you're gonna raise, you do so on the turn on a safe card.

tyler, i like how you played this.

elipsesjeff

06-26-2005, 09:29 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I would raise the flop here.

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poskid_1982

06-27-2005, 12:20 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

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I think I make the play that Jeff suggests but I can really see the merit of Hyper and Tyler's arguement...a raise on the turn here really makes a LAgg who makes constant continuation bets think about what he's doing. Hmmm...I think I need to look at this a little bit.

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

TylerK

06-27-2005, 12:48 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Just for the record I think a flop raise would be really horrible here.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

RiverMonkey

06-27-2005, 05:07 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Just for the record I think a flop raise would be really horrible here.

Why?

Nehmer

06-27-2005, 05:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Just for the record I think a flop raise would be really horrible here.

Why?

I also would like to know why as I still think raising the flop for value here is the right play in this situation.

RiverMonkey

06-27-2005, 06:07 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

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I 'd agree that a raise on the flop doesn't protect your hand, but as Nehmer points out, if you are ahead, the raise is for value.

TylerK

06-27-2005, 07:04 PM

#11 (permalink)

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If I raise the flop, what is my play on the turn if either player calls? What about reraises?

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

RiverMonkey

06-27-2005, 07:58 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

There's the obvious spade-draw and possible open and gut-shot str8 draws on the flop, and the Q doesn't help either draw, so I'd come out leading that turn after a flop raise if checked to me on the turn. Likewise, if a brick on the river, I bet out there too if he checks to me.

If re-raised or I'm bet into on the turn/river I'd check-call it down if the turn/river did not complete the obvious draws. If one of the obvious draws does complete how I play it will be read dependent. I'd include the third player in my decision here too of course.

I don't think you can avoid paying off two-pair in this hand unless the third player comes to the river too and appears to have something that seems to be as good or better than the BB.

Edit: I didn't notice that BB had raised before the flop ... that certainly can change things depending on whether you respect BB's raises or not. You do have a hand that's easily dominated ..... but, against let's say, more than 50% of players, I think I still like a raise on the flop to help find out.

RiverMonkey

06-27-2005, 08:47 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 446

FWIW:

Pre-flop:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 09.0156 % 08.74% 00.27% { random }
Hand 2: 16.8886 % 16.47% 00.42% { random }
Hand 3: 14.9580 % 13.87% 01.09% { random }
Hand 4: 24.8918 % 24.18% 00.71% { Kh9h }
Hand 5: 34.2460 % 33.69% 00.56% { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AQo+, KQo }

On-the-flop:
Board: Ks 7s 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 01.7547 % 01.70% 00.05% { random }
Hand 2: 22.3571 % 21.98% 00.38% { random }
Hand 3: 14.6079 % 13.65% 00.96% { random }
Hand 4: 35.8106 % 34.95% 00.86% { Kh9h }
Hand 5: 25.4696 % 24.98% 00.49% { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AQo+, KQo }

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K9s and a kind of weird calldown

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