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Staple Gun

05-28-2005, 10:57 PM Post subject: Justified or not?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

I'm fairly new to Omaha only been playing about a week online. So If anyone could tell me if my analysis of theis hand was correct that would be greatly appriciated.

If my Heres what I figured, I was getting 2:1 odds to call this but this guy was loose and I knew if hit I could get the rest of his stack. So my implied odds were 4:1 and I had 13 outs (9 flush, 4 full house). So this would give me about 2.8 : 1 odds of hitting. So this call was justified right? Is there anything I'm missing with this?

Hand #6063604-7125 at Gouda (Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 28/May/05 18:45:58

smiley55 is at seat 0 with $7.20.
Cuff Me Babyy is at seat 1 with $3.65.
Annie Oak is at seat 2 with $17.50.
toml_8 is at seat 3 with $25.30.
_sawadicap_ is at seat 4 with $17.55.
club car 165 is at seat 5 with $4.75.
Rystar is at seat 6 with $10.50.
sludge44805 is at seat 7 with $9.80.
EfrenReyes is at seat 8 with $10 (sitting out).
Greystreet_1 is at seat 9 with $21.40.
The button is at seat 7.

Greystreet_1 posts the small blind of $.10.
smiley55 posts the big blind of $.25.

smiley55: -- -- -- --
Cuff Me Babyy: -- -- -- --
Annie Oak: -- -- -- --
toml_8: 6s Ks Ad 3d
_sawadicap_: -- -- -- --
club car 165: -- -- -- --
Rystar: -- -- -- --
sludge44805: -- -- -- --
Greystreet_1: -- -- -- --

Pre-flop:

Cuff Me Babyy calls. Annie Oak calls. toml_8 calls.
_sawadicap_ calls. club car 165 calls. Rystar
calls. sludge44805 folds. Greystreet_1 calls.
smiley55 checks.

Flop (board: Jd 5s 3h):

Greystreet_1 checks. smiley55 bets $.25. Cuff Me
Babyy folds. Annie Oak folds. toml_8 calls.
_sawadicap_ calls. club car 165 folds. Rystar
calls. Greystreet_1 calls.

Turn (board: Jd 5s 3h 6d):

Greystreet_1 checks. smiley55 bets $3.25. toml_8
calls. _sawadicap_ folds. Rystar folds.
Greystreet_1 folds.

River (board: Jd 5s 3h 6d 8s):

smiley55 goes all-in for $3.45. toml_8 folds.
smiley55 is returned $3.45 (uncalled).

Hand #6063604-7125 Summary:

$.45 is raked from a pot of $9.75.
smiley55 wins $9.30.
----------------------------------------------------------------

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Humphrind

05-29-2005, 07:23 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

You have bad position to call pre-flop. But I played a lot in the .25 PL rooms at UB, so I know they can be pretty passive pre-flop.

But even after you saw the flop, don't call any bet. You've only got a bunch of backdoor draws.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Staple Gun

05-29-2005, 09:29 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

Ok, I didnt even realize how dumb I played that hand before the turn. I was limping with like 60% of my hands though because no one would raise preflop. Only like 1 in 10 pots were raised preflop. Anyways, aside from the stupid plays early, was the call on the turn good or not?

Fnord

05-29-2005, 10:42 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

You have bad position to call pre-flop. But I played a lot in the .25 PL rooms at UB, so I know they can be pretty passive pre-flop.

All I see in that hand to get excited about is a sooted Ace. I *might* limp that hand on the button.

Small stakes PLO is all about making a nut hand (or top set) or stong nut draw (wraps and such) and selling it to some sucker (likely a hold'em player) who will call off their stack with a big pair, crappy draw, 2 pair or bottom set.

If a bad player raises pre-flop, they have AAxx and will spew lots of chips at you post flop if you hit. Don't bother raising AAxx unless you're raising lots of other hands, as you can't get in enough money pre-flop with 100xBB stacks to protect your hand, and the pre-flop edge isn't nearly that of hold'em. However, if you get a chance to limp/re-raise big...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Staple Gun

05-30-2005, 03:36 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

Maybe I shoul rephrase this, What if suddenly I was dropped into this game, already on the turn with this hand. Would the call ON THE TURN be justified?

Xanadu

05-30-2005, 05:33 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

I don't think your call on the turn is near as clear as you thought it was. A lot of your outs could give the other guy a boat or a bigger boat than yours. Remember this guy was the big blind and didnt have to call a raise. There are some hands that take a lot of your outs away. For example, its bad for you if he has 7664, and his bidding makes a lot of sense for that hand. If he has that hand, to start with he holds 2 of your outs for the boat, your other 2 outs to the boat (the 3s) give him a bigger boat, and one of your outs to the flush (5d) gives him a boat too. Take away another out because you double counted the 3d.

So best case, you have 12 outs, worst case you have only 7 outs. You can't assume your opponent has that many of your outs covered, but you can't disregard the fact that some of your outs will give the other guy a better hand most of the time. For calculation sake, I might count this hand around 10 outs when deciding whether to call. That's worse than
4-1. There is still the chance he's bluffing and your 2-pair hold up, but that would be a poor situation to try a bluff with 4 people still in the pot. Unless you know this guy will bluff at half a table, I think it's a clear fold.
You can't be sure your gonna take the guys stack even if you do hit.

Another thing to remember ... if he has some of your outs covered, and you hit one of his outs, you are going to pay him another $4 or so. This further decreases your implied odds.

Staple Gun

05-31-2005, 02:51 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

Thabks Xanadu, that was what I was looking for. Only thing, I was about 90% positive I would take his stack if I hit, because he was a loose overaggresive type player, but even knowing this it appears I made the wrong call. Thanks for the help

Humphrind

05-31-2005, 10:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

You have bad position to call pre-flop. But I played a lot in the .25 PL rooms at UB, so I know they can be pretty passive pre-flop.

All I see in that hand to get excited about is a sooted Ace. I *might* limp that hand on the button.

Suited Ace and a suited king. I'd love to limp in this pot. But from UTG it's tricky. I'd need a guarantee in writing that it would not be raised pre-flop. In the PL UB room, you can get very close to having that guarantee.

TO make this clear, I'd fold this hand. But I can't fault him too much for calling.

As far as your turn question, no, you don't have the odds to call. If you are wanting to draw to the nuts (and you always do in Omaha) you have 8 outs. To get me to call this hand I'd need to have 2 flush draws.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

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