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Just a hand. River bet?

  
 
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Wet_DreaMer
Old 04-12-2005, 05:13 AM     Post subject: Just a hand. River bet? #1 (permalink)  
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Hand #5155550-17147 at Minneapolis ($.50/$1 Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 12/Apr/05 01:05:12

Pistlepete is at seat 0 with $48.50.
Wet-DreaMer is at seat 1 with $43.70.
chrisjagon is at seat 2 with $56.
riziles is at seat 3 with $36.15.
koolak is at seat 4 with $41.25.
sarge2068 is at seat 5 with $44.45.
The button is at seat 3.

koolak posts the small blind of $.25.
sarge2068 posts the big blind of $.50.

Pistlepete: -- --
Wet-DreaMer: Jh Ks
chrisjagon: -- --
riziles: -- --
koolak: -- --
sarge2068: -- --

Pre-flop:

Pistlepete calls. Wet-DreaMer raises to $1.
chrisjagon folds. riziles calls. koolak calls.
sarge2068 folds. Pistlepete calls.

Flop (board: 2c 6h 9s):

koolak checks. Pistlepete checks. Wet-DreaMer bets
$.50. riziles calls. koolak folds. Pistlepete
calls.

Turn (board: 2c 6h 9s 9h):

Pistlepete checks. Wet-DreaMer checks. riziles
checks.

River (board: 2c 6h 9s 9h Ac):
Pistlepete checks.

Im still getting used to limit, and having some trouble with paint missing a ragged flop. Not the flop bet, but the turn and river are giving me troubles.

My feeling is that on the turn Im repping fear of the doubled 9, playing a high ace or pp>6.

Pistlepete is fairly loose, but also quite aggressive when he makes a hand. He could easily be on missed paint, royalty-rag or any straight draw possible. On the turn I was worried about a checkraise of the 9, but on the river I feel Im safe.

Riziles is a decent player, but has absolutely no respect for me. He could even be calling down the 2 or 6, kicker regardless. I feel that as the pot is relatively small, he will assume the suckout on the A river, and will fold to my bet.

Thoughts? Do I bet here?
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-12-2005, 05:19 AM #2 (permalink)  
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KJo is not a preflop raising hand EP.

check and fold the river. they are calling.
 
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-12-2005, 07:28 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Agree,

watch what you raise with and definetely not with KJo. On the button if its folded to you...
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Wet_DreaMer
Old 04-12-2005, 07:49 AM #4 (permalink)  
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"High card hands: These hands go up in value. KTo, weak hand in full ring, strong hand shorthanded. You should not be afraid of open raising with this hand, from all positions."

To be honest since Ive started playing 6max Ive used this as my gospel line. Anything K10s or better Ive been raising from UTG+1 or after, its been working very well for me too. (Most likely too well.... variance)

So what should I be doing with KJ here? Surely not limping? Folding it? My preflop stats are usually roughly:

22% VP$IP

10% Raise
12% Call (includes completions)

Which I think is fairly tight. Usually the only two types of hands Ill ever limp with are PP 22-88 (dependent heavily on position), and Axs.
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Wet_DreaMer
Old 04-12-2005, 07:56 AM #5 (permalink)  
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For long run ev, Im betting $1 into a pot of $5 with two opponents.

Chances of them calling down with a worse hand is incredibly low, the only possibility is a K-rag from rizeles; which Ive seen him do before. However I think it can be fairly well ignored (as can be table image as I leave soon after), so looking at fold chances:

Im risking $1 to win $5, a re-raise would be an auto-fold.

So there needs to be a 20% chance they are folding for the correct play to be the bet? With the reads I have and their actions in the hand I dont have this?

In tournament play Im betting this out like there is no tomorrow, but I really think Im missing something important in limit (the sheriff factor? haha)


Note: Thanks in advance. I accept Im a limit newb =P
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-12-2005, 09:33 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Just noticed it was 6-max sry. I would probably limp UTG with it. Less variance. If its raised back to you, you have to call and hope you are not dominated and pay them off if you hit the flop.

But yeah you can raise this hand UTG 6 max.

PS: hyper I read in some post that you muck ATs UTG at 10 handed? Am I too loose or are you too tight? At what limits? How about offsuit broadway UTG UTG+ ?
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Wet_DreaMer
Old 04-12-2005, 10:55 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Just noticed it was 6-max sry. I would probably limp UTG with it. Less variance. If its raised back to you, you have to call and hope you are not dominated and pay them off if you hit the flop.

But yeah you can raise this hand UTG 6 max.

PS: hyper I read in some post that you muck ATs UTG at 10 handed? Am I too loose or are you too tight? At what limits? How about offsuit broadway UTG UTG+ ?


It was UTG+1, but thanks for the advice anyway. I just figure the majority of the time KJo would be easily the best hand 6-way, and can be easily laid down to a bad flop, or repped on a Q or A. I rarely limp as you can see by my stats.

I know the second part is directed at hyper, but I would definitely no question fold ATs UTG 10-way, same can be said for AJs and pps 22-88.
Of course this depends on table dynamics, but I can rarely see a situation where Im playing ATs utg.
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Fnord
Old 04-12-2005, 10:58 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
KJo is not a preflop raising hand EP.
My god are you tight, have you considered using your anus to enter the artificial diamond buisness? It's 6 handed and a horrible player UTG limped, I raise this twice on Sunday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-12-2005, 03:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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damn it, use the damn converter!!!

disregard everything i just said in the first post in this thread :P

KJo, definite raise in a shorthanded game. i've received criticism about my guide that KTo UTG is too loose....seems like one of those cut offs between KT and KJ. anywho, yes....raise KJ for sure.

there's also one other line....bet the turn, fold to a raise, check/fold the river.

don't know why, i've been tightening up a lot lately....uncounsciously. over the past 1000 hands of 6max my VPIP was under 20%....somehow still running well at 4BB/100....

time to re-reread those preflop charts again.

Quote:
somethin about me muckin ATs
i think one of the problems for me lately is TOO much respect for position. i would get a hand like KJs in the SB, and instead of pushing my pot equity vs a lot of limpers, i would just complete....for the sole reason of being out of position.

Quote:
22% VPIP, 10% PFR
VPIP is fine...look for more spots to put your money in. situations where it's raise/fold and you tend to fold, now you should tend to raise (preflop that is)

10% PFR is too low. it should be that in a full ring game! jack it up to 15%. a significant amount of that is stealing the blinds. so steal more. raise any ace. raise K7+.
 
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