JJ laydown and TPTK loss

**sarbox68** · 10-21-2006 10:38 PM

So y'all just tell me if I am overstaying my welcome and posting too much stuff...

Anyhoo....

Hand 1: Held JJ OOP against Villain. V RR PF and then R on flop. CF to him on turn, mainly because of 2 overs on board. Can't believe should have taken him to River, but should I have folded to his Flop raise with his PF RR and K on the board?

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with J

J

Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 8 folds, Hero calls (6.5:1).

Flop: 9

K

5

(7.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls (10.5:1).

Turn: Q

(5.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to UTG+1.

Results:
Final pot: 5.75BB

Hand 2: In the BB with QJs. Raised by SB PF, called by MP3 and CO. Ragged flop gives me TP w/Q Kicker. SB bets into me, I raise, everyone calls. SB checks to me on Turn, I bet, CO calls, SB folds. I bet on non-scary River, CO raises, I call. CO shows KK. Should I have a) just checked to the river (tho' no sense of strength from CO) or NOT called his River raise and folded?

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with J

Q

5 folds, MP3 calls (1.5:1), CO calls (2.5:1), Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls (4.5:1), MP3 calls (5.5:1), CO calls (6.5:1).

Flop: 3

6

J

(6SB, 4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls (9:2), CO calls (11:2), SB calls (13:1).

Turn: 4

(7BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO calls (8:1), SB folds.

River: 9

(9BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls (12:1).

Results:
Final pot: 13BB

**Ragnar4** · 10-22-2006 12:49 AM

Hand one.

I actually like a re-raise on the flop by the Hero here. the call/cap will tell you where your at. If he calls, you can take controll of the hand, if he re-raises, you can fold with dignity and get away from the money you lose. I'm really big on confrontations on the flop, it's just my style.

Hand 2.
CO used deception to outplay you. Seems to me like he thought the table was either being too timid, or he's retarded. I'm going with the former. Nothing you can do but put a note in CO's file that he limp called with KK, is deceptive, and keep that in mind when he's doing something that doesn't make sense.

Be glad he actually saved you money being afraid of the straight on the turn instead of turning it into a raising war. Gonna be honest, even I would have lost 3 big bets on the turn and one big bet on the river wondering what I ran into with my top pair good kicker.

**NWNewell** · 10-22-2006 02:33 AM

With it being heads up preflop when it is your turn to act, I'd rather cap preflop and b/f the flop.

End result will save you one sb every time he raises the flop (cost you one more bet preflop instead of two more bets to 3-bet the flop to find out where you stand).

I think most oppoenents have to hit top pair or hold and over pair to raise the preflop capper. (They might raise with a flush draw, but any decent player has to recongize the strength of the preflop capper and know that he isn't raising a flush draw for value heads-up.... so I think many will be calling down the flush draw).

The results might not be quite as conclusive as 3-betting the flop. But I think the little less certanty is made up and more by saving a sb.

I don't know for sure... but that's what I'm thinking... I think it at least another decent way to go... maybe not better though... not really sure.

**arkitekton** · 10-24-2006 10:49 PM

With it being heads up preflop when it is your turn to act, I'd rather cap preflop and b/f the flop.

Against nonmaniacs I prefer this line too. It seems to tell me what I need to know, and it has the added benefit of occasionally picking up the pot against something like a pocket pair of queens when the flop comes with an overcard--no small thing.

On Hand 2, I'm check-calling the river--but only because I went that far. There's no draw with which villain could be calling my flop raise, and would he really hang around with a hand I could beat such as JT?
Your flop raise is decent, but when all 3 opponents call, unless this is the loosest, dumbest game going, I'm check folding the turn.

And quit posting the results in your original post !!!

10-21-2006 10:38 PM #1
sarbox68 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 1,113 Location wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from	JJ laydown and TPTK loss So y'all just tell me if I am overstaying my welcome and posting too much stuff... Anyhoo.... Hand 1: Held JJ OOP against Villain. V RR PF and then R on flop. CF to him on turn, mainly because of 2 overs on board. Can't believe should have taken him to River, but should I have folded to his Flop raise with his PF RR and K on the board? Poker Room skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $0.50/$1 10 players Converter Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with J J Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 8 folds, Hero calls (6.5:1). Flop: 9 K 5 (7.5SB, 2 players) Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls (10.5:1). Turn: Q (5.75BB, 2 players) Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero folds. Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to UTG+1. Results: Final pot: 5.75BB Hand 2: In the BB with QJs. Raised by SB PF, called by MP3 and CO. Ragged flop gives me TP w/Q Kicker. SB bets into me, I raise, everyone calls. SB checks to me on Turn, I bet, CO calls, SB folds. I bet on non-scary River, CO raises, I call. CO shows KK. Should I have a) just checked to the river (tho' no sense of strength from CO) or NOT called his River raise and folded? Poker Room skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $0.50/$1 10 players Converter Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with J Q 5 folds, MP3 calls (1.5:1), CO calls (2.5:1), Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls (4.5:1), MP3 calls (5.5:1), CO calls (6.5:1). Flop: 3 6 J (6SB, 4 players) SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls (9:2), CO calls (11:2), SB calls (13:1). Turn: 4 (7BB, 4 players) SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO calls (8:1), SB folds. River: 9 (9BB, 2 players) Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls (12:1). Results: Final pot: 13BB

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10-22-2006 12:49 AM #2
Ragnar4 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2005 Posts 3,195 Location Billings, Montana	Hand one. I actually like a re-raise on the flop by the Hero here. the call/cap will tell you where your at. If he calls, you can take controll of the hand, if he re-raises, you can fold with dignity and get away from the money you lose. I'm really big on confrontations on the flop, it's just my style. Hand 2. CO used deception to outplay you. Seems to me like he thought the table was either being too timid, or he's retarded. I'm going with the former. Nothing you can do but put a note in CO's file that he limp called with KK, is deceptive, and keep that in mind when he's doing something that doesn't make sense. Be glad he actually saved you money being afraid of the straight on the turn instead of turning it into a raising war. Gonna be honest, even I would have lost 3 big bets on the turn and one big bet on the river wondering what I ran into with my top pair good kicker.
	The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
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10-22-2006 02:33 AM #3
NWNewell View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2006 Posts 301 Location Kennedy Space Center, FL	With it being heads up preflop when it is your turn to act, I'd rather cap preflop and b/f the flop. End result will save you one sb every time he raises the flop (cost you one more bet preflop instead of two more bets to 3-bet the flop to find out where you stand). I think most oppoenents have to hit top pair or hold and over pair to raise the preflop capper. (They might raise with a flush draw, but any decent player has to recongize the strength of the preflop capper and know that he isn't raising a flush draw for value heads-up.... so I think many will be calling down the flush draw). The results might not be quite as conclusive as 3-betting the flop. But I think the little less certanty is made up and more by saving a sb. I don't know for sure... but that's what I'm thinking... I think it at least another decent way to go... maybe not better though... not really sure.
	My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.
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10-24-2006 10:49 PM #4
arkitekton View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 268 Location canada	With it being heads up preflop when it is your turn to act, I'd rather cap preflop and b/f the flop. Against nonmaniacs I prefer this line too. It seems to tell me what I need to know, and it has the added benefit of occasionally picking up the pot against something like a pocket pair of queens when the flop comes with an overcard--no small thing. On Hand 2, I'm check-calling the river--but only because I went that far. There's no draw with which villain could be calling my flop raise, and would he really hang around with a hand I could beat such as JT? Your flop raise is decent, but when all 3 opponents call, unless this is the loosest, dumbest game going, I'm check folding the turn. And quit posting the results in your original post !!!

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JJ laydown and TPTK loss

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