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JJ check-reraised

  
 
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Hermann the Lombard
Old 11-05-2007, 08:01 PM     Post subject: JJ check-reraised #1 (permalink)  
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Hermann the Lombard
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 8, Q, 9 (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 3-bets, Button calls, Hero...

BT is 42/1.5/1.16
MP1 is 66/0/0.32
MP3 is 43/2.5/0.27
No meaningful notes.

First of all, was mine a stupid checkraise? I figure there's a reasonable chance that none of the three of these fish has a Queen and (despite their numbers) I'm thinking there aren't any premium hands around due to lack of PF action. They could be playing ATC and I don't want anyone other than me drawing to the straight.

Second, oops, check-reraised by a very passive player. I'm in trouble, but I'm getting over 14:1 and I have a gutshot and 2 jack outs (assuming optimistically that MP3 doesn't already have a straight), I also have some implied odds, I think.
Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
 
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arborman
Old 11-05-2007, 09:22 PM #2 (permalink)  
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arborman
I think I'd call this flop and wait to see if turn is any help myself. Qx is well within the range of some of these folks. Though maybe I'm a bit too passive in situations like this.

As played, and since the button called, I'd call and make a decision on turn depending on what comes. Worst case you have a passive guy who limped QQ, but if your gutshot comes in you will probably make a lot of money from him (as he'd likely stay in with a gutshot of his own, not knowing you have 2 of his Jacks).

Button and/or the other guy might have JT as well, which would be difficult. This is one of those variance hands that pays slightly more than it costs in the long run, but you might as well wait for the turn.

Don't be afraid to get away on the turn if it doesn't help you though.
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DrivingDog
Old 11-05-2007, 09:33 PM     Post subject: Re: JJ check-reraised #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
First of all, was mine a stupid checkraise?

Second, oops, check-reraised by a very passive player. I'm in trouble, but I'm getting over 14:1 and I have a gutshot and 2 jack outs (assuming optimistically that MP3 doesn't already have a straight), I also have some implied odds, I think.
1) There's too many limpers and the board is too drawy to like your hand that much. No-one with a Q, J, T, 9, or 8 is going anywhere at this level. Maybe 82 will fold but don't count on it.

2) It looks like someone's hit a home run here - I'm puke-folding this hand right away. On the surface you have 6 outs, but it would be amazing if at least a couple of those outs weren't already in other players' hands. Also, they are non-nut outs and even if you hit the turn or river you could still lose or end up paying for the chance of splitting the pot.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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KoRnholio
Old 11-05-2007, 10:14 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Yeah I just call and hope to snag a ten... Maybe give us one out for the 2 remaining J's too.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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snowboard_31
Old 11-06-2007, 04:24 PM #5 (permalink)  
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fold, your most likely beat and drawing to a split pot. Jack=straight to someone, 10=hopefully a split pot but KJ takes you down. Unimproved your still not winning your share of the time.
1. Get a seat to their right
2. Steal blinds at will
3. ...
4. Profit
"It should be a crime to not bet if someone has checked to you twice."
-soupie
"If you can pinpoint a player's range, you can own his soul."
-Bond18
 
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Hermann the Lombard
Old 11-06-2007, 05:23 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Hermann the Lombard
So the consensus is check/call/fold the flop? (I'm assuming that MP3 would raise and Button would call.)
Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
 
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arborman
Old 11-06-2007, 06:30 PM #7 (permalink)  
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arborman
Any reason you didn't raise preflop?
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Hermann the Lombard
Old 11-06-2007, 09:26 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Hermann the Lombard
Quote:
Originally Posted by arborman
Any reason you didn't raise preflop?
Yes, too many limpers. One limper or first-in I would raise.
Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
 
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arborman
Old 11-06-2007, 10:13 PM #9 (permalink)  
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arborman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
Quote:
Originally Posted by arborman
Any reason you didn't raise preflop?
Yes, too many limpers. One limper or first-in I would raise.
Interesting. I tend to raise and (sometimes) 3bet JJ no matter how many people are in. If I get 3bet then I know I'm facing QQ+ usually, and if I get cold called then I have a strong indication of big broadway. It all depends on who and where of course, but I don't know if I've ever limped JJ.
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