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Trikflow77
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02-11-2005, 08:15 PM
Post subject: Jim Briers Card Player SSH articles
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
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Have any of you guys been reading his colum in card player. What he does is take the examples from the book, reprint what ed miller says to do and then adds his own thoughts. Most of the time his thoughts are NOT the same as the book and I tend to agree. Here is an example:
Hand No. 2: You have the Adiamonds 9diamonds in the big blind. The player under the gun raises, two players cold-call, the small blind calls, and you call. The flop is 10hearts 4spades 4diamonds. It is checked around. The turn is the 9clubs. The small blind bets. What should you do?
Book Answer: Raise. The small blind may be bluffing and you should take a stand in a raised pot. He could have a 10 or a 4, but he also might bet with a variety of other hands, including a 9 with a weaker kicker than yours, a small pocket pair, a straight draw, or a total bluff. The paired board makes it less likely that a better hand is out against you. There are only five cards (three tens and two fours) that can beat you. Furthermore, the board has very few draws, so your opponents will draw out on you less often when you are ahead, while you will draw out on an opponent with a 10 more often when you are behind; your partial outs are stronger on a noncoordinated board.
Raising is better than calling because it protects your hand. Someone may have picked up a straight draw. You should force these possible holdings to call two bets. Furthermore, your raise may occasionally cause someone with a 10 to fold, as your play may appear to others as a slow-played 4. Raising will occasionally cost you an extra bet when you run into a full house. Nevertheless, you should not play passively in a multiway pot with a vulnerable hand. Play aggressively and protect your hand.
My Thoughts (Jim Brier): The pot is not large because there was no flop betting and your pot odds are now only 6-to-1. It is rare for a low-limit player to be betting with a worse hand than yours in this situation. The small blind might well have a 10 with a weak kicker and not bet into four opponents on a flop that includes a preflop raiser. There is a chance that the small blind has a 4 and was planning to check-raise the flop because he assumed the preflop raiser would bet. Like many poker problems, what you do depends on what you know about the opponent who is betting. In general, low-limit players are not tricky or deceptive (although they are frequently unaware). This is especially true when they are out of position with lots of players in a hand. A typical, passive low-limit player will simply check and call with a worse 9 than yours, not bet out into a large field. Finally, there are three players yet to act, one of whom might have a better hand and decided not to bet the flop but will certainly call your raise or even three-bet
This is one sample hand in the book where I think the books advice is hazy. Jim make very valid points. To me, most players would check a weak ten and slowplay a 4 on the flop. They might be trying for a c/r on the flop and missed. The pot here is not small but not big and raising will cut down the field (ie weak ten behind you and overcards) but the original bettor is more likely to have a ten or a 4 than nothing at all (but not all the time on pp). Then you have to worry about the raiser and 2 limpers behind you. Without any flop action its hard to know where you are in the hand. Calling sucks because your hand is liable to get beat by over cards.
I think taking the books advice and going on autobet/raise in these situations is why some players lose money after they read SSH. Some people are going to use SSH as a springboard to more advanced analysis and some people are going to use it as a recipie book/instruction manual.
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Chicago_Kid
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Are these articles posted on their website?
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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Trikflow77
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Here is the linkhttp://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...name/Jim_Brier
Disclaimer: I do NOT agree with some of the advise he gives, but a lot of it makes sense.
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Chicago_Kid
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02-11-2005, 08:42 PM
Post subject: Re: Jim Briers Card Player SSH articles
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by trikflow77
The pot is not large because there was no flop betting and your pot odds are now only 6-to-1. It is rare for a low-limit player to be betting with a worse hand than yours in this situation. The small blind might well have a 10 with a weak kicker and not bet into four opponents on a flop that includes a preflop raiser. There is a chance that the small blind has a 4 and was planning to check-raise the flop because he assumed the preflop raiser would bet. Like many poker problems, what you do depends on what you know about the opponent who is betting.
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I understand your logic. However, it's only a SB to quickly determine if you are behind. If you raise, and someone behind you raises, you can get out. If the original bettor re-reraises, then you probably get out. I think the very reason you raise is because, at a low stakes table, no one is tricky enough to f-- with you unless they hit a hand--so you can make them expose their hand by raising.
All things equal, wouldn't you rather find out where you are on the flop than on the turn? If you call that first bet, then where are you on the turn? If you fold, you have NO chance of taking it. So I think raising is a good play.
Just my 2 cents...as a relative beginner.
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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Trikflow77
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You have nothing on the flop......so finding out where your nothing stands from the blind by betting is not wise. That is what I am talking about on this hand...there is no action on the flop so it is more difficult to make a move. If you raise 2 big bets into a 6 big bet pot and dont win a large percentage it gets really expensive to find out where your at.
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Chicago_Kid
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Oops...you are correct. I misread the hand, sorry.
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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elipsesjeff
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I disagree, I would raise in this situation. Buy the button, and you could get a free showdown out of it. Calling it down would cost you the same money, however, but the potential of other hands drawing out on you increases if you dont raise.
I raise here, easily, the size of the pot in this situation doesn't matter, because the pot increases 2x as much on the turn and river than it does on the flop. It would be different if you didnt have a made hand, or you are on a draw. But, you want to protect your hand in both small pots and big pots. Many small pots add up.
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Trikflow77
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Full House
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Ok..... so do insta muck to a reraise? This hand seems like a marginal hand and a marginal situation. You dont have position, you have no reads and you are beat by a ton of hands. The raise is not always going to buy you the button either...there is three left behind you. If you raise with the intention to release your hand to a 3 bet, then this is best. THe big problem here is NO read on any opponent.
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ChezJ
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Jim criticizes SSH but doesn't say what his solution is. Fold with second pair, top kicker? Call and let someone suck out? Depending on the tightness of the players, I might fold instead of raise. But calling seems just plain wrong to me.
ChezJ
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elipsesjeff
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by trikflow77
Ok..... so do insta muck to a reraise? This hand seems like a marginal hand and a marginal situation. You dont have position, you have no reads and you are beat by a ton of hands. The raise is not always going to buy you the button either...there is three left behind you. If you raise with the intention to release your hand to a 3 bet, then this is best. THe big problem here is NO read on any opponent.
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Yeah, you would fold to a three bet, and check behind on the river regardless.
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